Mall of America - Bloomington

[FISHMANPET]

It wouldn't surprise me if they just pave this over to turn into their overflow lot anyway, since the overflow lot by Ikea is torn up/being built on. It's not like it's doing much else anyway, and in fact once they must have worked out a deal with the landowner because it actually was overflow parking for the mall.

[HiawathaGuy]

This is probably super reaching, but any chance that the block now being owned by MOA and the upcoming transit center rework could result in the tracks being moved to run parallel to 82nd from 28th Ave straight into the new transit center? Seems like it would shave a couple minutes off the train end-to-end time, since they apparently can't go more than 5mph from 28th to MOA. Also, though I've no idea what they plan to do with that block, it seems like it could only be an improvement to only have one block face cut off by the tracks instead of two.

There are many things incorrect in your comments. First and foremost, the train only travels at 5mph from the sharp turn to go under the ramp at MOA into the transit center. It's 15mph from that curve to just across 24th Ave S, then it's 25mph until just before the 28th Ave S. So it's not exactly like the train crawls from 28th to MOA. It's only 2 min from 28th to MOA, spending upwards of $25-40 million to move rail isn't worth the maybe minute that it could possibly shave off. Not to mention that MOA owns that land now - not MAC. So it'd be a lot more problematic to run the tracks parallel to 82nd.

This was how the end of the line was originally planned:


Comments about the old plans & why it was changed to what we have currently:

[mattaudio]

Much has changed since Hiawatha Line planning in terms of the value of the land in question. First, even though MAC doesn't own it, there are severe FAA limitations on what could be built there. I doubt it will ever see much on this parcel. Second, E. 82nd St. serves much less of a purpose now that Lindau Lane has been extended to Bloomington Central.

[HiawathaGuy]

Wasn't that originally their expansion lot, but then they flipped with the MAC when Rwy 17/35 was built?

Yes, MAC & MOA did a land swap back in 2002.


More info: http://bloomingtonmn.gov/cityhall/dept/ ... /scope.pdf

[HiawathaGuy]

Much has changed since Hiawatha Line planning in terms of the value of the land in question. First, even though MAC doesn't own it, there are severe FAA limitations on what could be built there. I doubt it will ever see much on this parcel. Second, E. 82nd St. serves much less of a purpose now that Lindau Lane has been extended to Bloomington Central.

Actually MAC said that they don't see housing being an option on this land, but they did say office/retail would work.
So perhaps at some point in the distant future, this land will sprout some sort of addition for MOA. They could build a new ramp, with an eastward expansion of the mall to where the current east ramp is today. I think there are lots of viable options. I just don't think it'll be anything anytime soon. The mall has plenty of underutilized land with the current north property to build on first.

[acs]

It will be interesting to see how Bloomington reacts to this. I think this part was to be the main technology/innovation area in the south loop plan.

[HuskyGrad]

This lot has been rumored for the potential soccer stadium site as well.

[MNdible]

A 20,000 seat stadium in the immediate flight path of a major runway may not be such a good idea.

[grant1simons2]

A 20,000 seat stadium in the immediate flight path of a major runway may not be such a good idea.

It was from 1956-1981

[mattaudio]

Grant, Rwy 17/35 opened in 2005. And Met Stadium was where the MOA is now, not this parcel east of 28th Ave which is off the end of the 17/35 Runway Protection Zone.

[HiawathaGuy]

It will be interesting to see how Bloomington reacts to this. I think this part was to be the main technology/innovation area in the south loop plan.

Yes, it looks like the City of Bloomington will need to update their South Loop master plans.

[grant1simons2]

I always knew that the Met was on the MOA spot but I didn't know that the 17/35 rwy was so new. I always thought that was one of the original ones. Even so anything built can be arguably "unsafe" due to an airport being north of it.

[HuskyGrad]

Grant, Rwy 17/35 opened in 2005. And Met Stadium was where the MOA is now, not this parcel east of 28th Ave which is off the end of the 17/35 Runway Protection Zone.

Zone B uses are restricted as follows:

• Each use must be on a site whose area is not less than 3 acres.
• Each use must not create, attract, or bring together a site population that would exceed 15 times that of the site acreage.
• Each site must have no more than one building plot upon which any number of structures may be erected.
• A building plot must be a single, uniform, and non-contrived area, whose shape is uncomplicated and whose area must not exceed minimum ratios with respect to the total site area.
• The following uses are specifically prohibited in Zone B: Churches, hospitals, schools, theaters, stadiums, hotels, motels, trailer courts, campgrounds, and other places of frequent public or semi-public assembly.

https://www.mspairport.com/docs/about-m ... ility.aspx

[Drizzay]

They could always level the Village Park of Bloomington and put the stadium there.

[HiawathaGuy]

Considering there are at least 9 (6 existing, one currently being built and 2 proposed hotels within both Zone Bs), I think there's certainly some leeway on this land being used for hospitality.

[HuskyGrad]

Considering there are at least 9 (6 existing, one currently being built and 2 proposed hotels within Zone B), I think there's certainly some leeway on this land being used for hospitality.

If exclusions can be made, who's the granting entity? In my brief reading these zones are set at the state level based on FAA guidelines.

[HiawathaGuy]

If exclusions can be made, who's the granting entity? In my brief reading these zones are set at the state level based on FAA guidelines.

I believe MAC has the final say over what can/can't be built within the safety zones. That's why I commented that MAC stated that residential wasn't preferred, but office/retail was, from the story about them selling this land off.

[mattaudio]

Zone B for Rwy 4/22 represents significantly less risk than Zone B for Rwy 17/35, due to usage patterns.

[fehler]

Once the Mall's northern expansion is complete, they could move their east parking/transit station to this block, and expand the mall in the previous location.

[HiawathaGuy]

Once the Mall's northern expansion is complete, they could move their east parking/transit station to this block, and expand the mall in the previous location.

That's what I suggested after posting this story. However, I doubt the transit station would move - especially if another $10-20 million is going to be spent on the improvements. The cost to have Metro Transit use the 82nd Street property for rail and move everything to this location would just be uneconomical.

But, the transit station can easily exist below any sort of eastward mall expansion - since the transit station's new entrance is planned to come up into the existing mall. So having a parking ramp and/or additional retail on this land seems quite possible.

Let's get the northward expansion underway first though... I think buying this property was a way for MOA to simply have 'overflow' parking that they own for the foreseeable future. They will be adding an additional 8,000+ spaces in ramps as part of Phase 2. But it's possible that they may want to close off all of that overflow parking to work on Phase 2 concurrently. Making this new lot perfect for them.