Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Twin Cities Suburbs
mattaudio
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby mattaudio » October 16th, 2019, 2:10 pm

It's not actually mixed use. It's "horizontal mixed use."

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby HiawathaGuy » October 16th, 2019, 2:41 pm

QuietBlue wrote:
October 16th, 2019, 7:45 am
I just think it's a weird place to build apartments. It would be convenient for someone who worked at Ecolab, Prime, or one of the other companies nearby, but there's nothing else in the area for shopping and services, other than the new Costco soon and a few restaurants at 55 and Dodd.
This is less than 4 miles from Eagan's plethora of endless shopping options and a little over 4 miles to South Roberts shopping in West Saint Paul. I think the pioneers in Zigiland Living will manage fine. Sure it's not connected well via transit - but hopefully with additional density, that will change.

QuietBlue
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby QuietBlue » October 17th, 2019, 7:29 am

HiawathaGuy wrote:
October 16th, 2019, 2:41 pm
This is less than 4 miles from Eagan's plethora of endless shopping options and a little over 4 miles to South Roberts shopping in West Saint Paul. I think the pioneers in Zigiland Living will manage fine. Sure it's not connected well via transit - but hopefully with additional density, that will change.
Yes, all or most of them will have cars (especially since it sounds like it's going to be fairly upscale). But most existing apartments in Eagan, as well as the ones under construction or proposed, are a lot closer to existing commercial nodes and transit routes. I know there are plans to build more things in Viking Lakes in the future, but a lot can happen in ten years.

xandrex
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby xandrex » October 17th, 2019, 1:11 pm

Given that nearly all of my suburban south metro friends and work colleagues (primarily in Eagan, Mendota Heights, etc.) have Vikings living in their apartment buildings, I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few of places rented out went to players.

luigipaladio
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby luigipaladio » November 12th, 2019, 5:00 pm

The new hotel at Viking Lakes is topped out and rapidly getting enclosed. It’s most interesting feature is a series of two story glassed in spaces running up the north end of the hotel. They are planned to be winter garden spaces for meetings and other events. The meeting and dining spaces at ground level are angular - in the style of many of the buildings on the Vikings campus buildings. Construction of the first apartments in Viking Lakes is set to begin this coming Spring. One of the few vacant properties to the west of Wilfland has just been marked for commercial retail development, something that may happen more often as the buildout of Viking Lakes continues.

Tcmetro
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby Tcmetro » May 12th, 2020, 6:29 pm

Burnsville has conducted a traffic study for CR 42 between Burnhaven Dr and I-35E. They're projecting a doubling in traffic from a redevelopment of the Burnsville Center (may be coming sooner than later given the potential bankruptcies of JC Penney and Gordman's). The traffic study recommends a whole lot of dual-lefts, conversion of the 3/4 intersection between Aldrich and Burnhaven to a right-in-right-out with a ped underpass, an elimination of the west crosswalk at Nicollet, extending Aldrich south through the mall, a new ramp to Buck Hill Road that bypasses the CR 42 intersection, and other suburban nonsense. Considering the city wants a "walkable" redevelopment of the mall area, this is totally incompatible.

http://www.burnsville.org/2200/Burnsvil ... -Traffic-S

DanPatchToget
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby DanPatchToget » May 13th, 2020, 9:51 am

When suburbs say they want walkable it usually means "we'll build wide sidewalks and some fancy trails but we're going to keep widening roads because we like our cars and driving fast too much to give that up."

I do like the roadway coming off southbound 35W just south of 42 that leads directly into Burnsville Center. Would be nice if it were bus-only for the future Orange Line Extension.

Mdcastle
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby Mdcastle » May 13th, 2020, 10:13 am

It's almost like you can make something walkable without hurting people in cars if you can build pedestrian overpasses and multi-use trails to keep motorized and non-motorized traffic separate.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby DanPatchToget » May 13th, 2020, 10:29 am

Mdcastle wrote:
May 13th, 2020, 10:13 am
It's almost like you can make something walkable without hurting people in cars if you can build pedestrian overpasses and multi-use trails to keep motorized and non-motorized traffic separate.
Are you suggesting we grade-separate every crosswalk? Just clarifying what you meant by that.

alexschief
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby alexschief » May 13th, 2020, 11:00 am

It's quite common in places, especially Latin America (see here for an example) to rely on ped bridges over major roads. I guess it's better than forcing people to cross at grade, but it's certainly not what anyone would call walkable. There are disability access issues and convenience issues for pedestrians. It is worth asking why the pedestrian realm should be consistently compromised to avoid having to compromise the driving realm in the slightest.

Oreos&Milk
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby Oreos&Milk » May 13th, 2020, 12:10 pm

DanPatchToget wrote:
May 13th, 2020, 9:51 am
When suburbs say they want walkable it usually means "we'll build wide sidewalks and some fancy trails but we're going to keep widening roads because we like our cars and driving fast too much to give that up."

I do like the roadway coming off southbound 35W just south of 42 that leads directly into Burnsville Center. Would be nice if it were bus-only for the future Orange Line Extension.
I agree 100%. Even if it's not bus only on day one it's infrastructure that could easily be converted. Ideally bus only during rush hour (assuming of course that will be a thing again in the future) Having a big park and ride here would be awesome! Long term the area could be developed to more density, and there is a decent bike system developing in this area that would feed towards a big park and ride station too for bike commuters. Having park and rides that are near shopping centers seem much more vibrant, and have more people in the area so staying late at the office wouldn't mean so much as a long scary walk to your car in an empty parking garage. Plus if riders are already there they could easily pop into the shopping center before going home.

I think a station here being the terminus for the Orange line should be fast tracked imidentilly. Hoping of course that the Burnsville center owners would be willing to play ball allowing a sizeable park&ride ramp with a skyway connection directly into the center. Paired with a redevelopment of the center that can target those commuters would be epic in creativity!

Imagine a parking ramp that funneled commuters through the mall to the park and ride station giving retail tenants the increase opportunity in foot traffic and sale opportunities. It's a win win win for everyone. Well, besides the costs to build.

As for the walking bridge over Cedar ave. Yuck, and a waste of money. Plus the extension of Aldrich Ave. seems completely useless.

Mdcastle
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby Mdcastle » May 13th, 2020, 1:57 pm

When I'm a pedestrian or bicyclist I consider a grade separated crossing the best possible scenario because then I'm completely separated from cars, and not a "compromise.

We can't grade separate every crossing but places on County 42 near Burnsville Center seems to be an excellent place to do so. (Along with Highway 13 at say Nicollet and Silver Bell Road)

Oreos&Milk
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby Oreos&Milk » May 13th, 2020, 10:09 pm

Well designed grade separation can be a great benefit I agree, however I'm a bit puzzled how a trail bridge here would fit together in a regional trail system. I admit I don't know what the long term plan is but connecting the Co. Rd. 5 and/or Buck hill Rd trails to the soon to be built 35W bike trail should be the long term goal. I just don't know how this bridge crossing 42 at this location fits into that network. If it doesn't then it's still not a bridge to nowhere, but a bridge that many won't be able to get to, let alone need/want to cross.

After reviewing the existing network again. It does look like a 35W crossing connecting to Nicollet Ave connecting to McAndrews Rd means there is almost a regional connection already. If Aldrich Ave and it's proposed extension were to include a new bike trail then that would fit beautifully with a future extension of a bike train on Buck Hill Rd. Only problem then is that the proposed map does not show any North/South trails.

Plus to not to mention they did kinda get slop with the map. Unless they are actually going to build a trail inside retail stores. Plus I bet Target won't be happy with a big bridge blocking the visibility of there sign at the corner. I'm a bit more on the fence. Wish there was more detailed information.

alexschief
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby alexschief » May 14th, 2020, 7:35 am

Mdcastle wrote:
May 13th, 2020, 1:57 pm
When I'm a pedestrian or bicyclist I consider a grade separated crossing the best possible scenario because then I'm completely separated from cars, and not a "compromise.

We can't grade separate every crossing but places on County 42 near Burnsville Center seems to be an excellent place to do so. (Along with Highway 13 at say Nicollet and Silver Bell Road)
Grade separation is great if it's where you are and where you are going. It's not so great if you need to walk a half mile to reach it, then walk a half mile to get back to right across the street from where you started. Because bridges and tunnels are expensive, they are necessarily less common, which means that they are likely inconvenient for most users. That encourages people not to bother walking.

It also leads to dangerous situations all the same. If you make road crossings infrequent, then people will be tempted to chance it on roads that were not built for crossing. These types of situations are not just common in Latin America, but also very common in parts of this country, when crosswalks are not easily accessible.

Tcmetro
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby Tcmetro » May 14th, 2020, 2:29 pm

There's a more detailed design in the redevelopment vision study that shows the ped tunnel not requiring takes of any existing buildings.

I think the ped tunnel is useful regardless of regional connection or not. Crossing 42 on foot now sucks, but a tunnel shouldn't be used as a mitigation technique or justification for making the road faster and more dangerous.

Multimodal
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Re: Eagan, Apple Valley, Burnsville - General Topics

Postby Multimodal » June 2nd, 2020, 8:05 am

Tcmetro wrote:
May 14th, 2020, 2:29 pm
I think the ped tunnel is useful regardless of regional connection or not. Crossing 42 on foot now sucks, but a tunnel shouldn't be used as a mitigation technique or justification for making the road faster and more dangerous.
Unfortunately, that’s often the entire justification for pedestrians bridges & tunnels: to allow traffic to proceed unimpeded, at speed. It’s why protected bike lanes are “too expensive” (don’t help cars go faster) but ped bridges are OK.

It’s also why many call pedestrian bridges car infrastructure, rather than pedestrian infrastructure.


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