Twin Cities Premium Outlets - Eagan

Twin Cities Suburbs
Lancestar2

Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby Lancestar2 » November 16th, 2012, 12:04 pm

I agree they could have made it look better perhaps some retail wrapped around on that side with a nice walkway and one row in front parking for low traffic retail. Although when you think about it it's kinda a bad spot 13 is pretty much a freeway and with the upgrades such as 13& co. rd 5 building on and off ramps 13 will continue to develop more and more freeway qualities from 169 to 77 I doubt any retailers would wan't to be stuck out on the north side of the Outlet mall because the visibility probably would be low as cars are zooming past. Also not much room for future expansion (besides the tiny lots) It would have been nice if such a project as this could develop a urban community of a walking paradise. But at the end of the day its just a VERY pretty and well designed "Big Box" style store. Also can't wait for it to open and I still havn't decided if the 1st time I will take the bus or drive :lol:

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby mnmike » November 21st, 2012, 11:20 am

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... erica.html

I see they usually have Neiman Marcus last call and Saks off Fifth, and will be pursuing them. I bet they will likely steal away the downtown Saks off 5th and take any chances of Neiman's keeping a last call location DT.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby mattaudio » December 3rd, 2012, 1:18 pm

Yep, they got Saks off Fifth. Think that means the DT location will close?
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... ll-of.html
If so, it would be nice to see the street level subdivided with a handful of new storefronts facing Nicollet Mall and 7th.

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby mnmike » December 6th, 2012, 11:28 am

This is how we always shoot ourselves in the foot. Downtown could actaully have been a good niche for these kind of outlets...perhaps adding a Neiman's last call, and others that will be in this mall...those kind of stores seem to do alright downtown, and grouped together could have been a destination, a kind of urban outlet...but instead they get built in Eagan.

ANyway, who knows, maybe they will keep both.

MNdible
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby MNdible » December 6th, 2012, 11:51 am

mnmike wrote:This is how we always shoot ourselves in the foot.
By shooting ourselves in the foot, you mean by allowing a private developer to build a private development where they feel it is most appropriate?

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby mattaudio » December 6th, 2012, 12:22 pm

I'm sort of in the middle... I think a private developer should be able to do what they want including building a mall that draws tenants from other retail space. That's not really the issue. The issue is that we have municipalities competing with other municipalities at the expense of our regional competitiveness. In this case, it's Eagan throwing money after a project (intending to court and leverage even more private investment) but in the end it's a large gain for Eagan but not a large gain for the metro. That's my big issue. Parochial municipalities operating in silos.

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby mnmike » December 6th, 2012, 12:24 pm

MNdible wrote:
mnmike wrote:This is how we always shoot ourselves in the foot.
By shooting ourselves in the foot, you mean by allowing a private developer to build a private development where they feel it is most appropriate?

Not exactly, I was more referring to the people on here who are very excited about this development...But I am glad someone else comes back with snarky comments like I do:)

I knew someone would read it as me saying that, I even thought that after I typed it. But yes, now that I think about it, I guess to some degree I do mean that...in this particular case. This metro area tends to shoot itself in the foot when it comes to all areas competing with one another...so many municipalites. Good for Eagan, this is a score for them.

I agree, privately financed development is most often a good thing...If a private developer comes to the table with someth viable, of course they should be able to build it. I was thinking more broadly about how the region functions as a whole, if that makes sense?

PS, I didn't even read Matt's response before typing this...it seems like he knew what I meant? Anyway, what he said.

QuietBlue
Target Field
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby QuietBlue » December 7th, 2012, 10:55 am

mnmike wrote:This is how we always shoot ourselves in the foot.
Who's "we", exactly? I live within walking distance of where the new mall will be. :) I understand your point about wanting to do things that benefit the region as a whole, but how does this work against that? Even if the downtown Saks outlet goes away, it is going to be much easier and faster to fill that space than it was to fill the old Cedarvale site.

FWIW, I'm not a cheerleader for the outlet mall per se; I'm taking a "wait and see" approach.

Lancestar2

Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby Lancestar2 » December 10th, 2012, 2:03 pm

I don't think many of you understand the process of outlet malls...

A outlet store sells merchandise that out outdated or overstock. For example say product didn't sell to the expectations of the store they will usually box either clearance them out at the store or box them up and resell them or ship them to one of their own company outlet stores to try to sell them cheaper. If they sell the discounted merchandise at the SAME store that can sometimes decrease profit margins because some customers may buy the clearance item instead of a new full price item that is just on sale. So outlet stores do NOT have the same inventory as the regular stores (though some may have small amounts of cross over inventory though that some stores decide not to send back) The outlet stores will be TINY compared to regular stores and will be a completely different shopping experience.

As for building outlet stores downtown? :lol: Outlet stores are by design sell clearance "junk" that didn't sell at FULL price OR SALE price! so they need to 1 ship it back to the outlet store (added cost) and then mark it down further! Far less margins for profits that's why traditionally outlet stores have been in rural areas (also because in the past stores demanded outlet malls be far away to prevent any cross over shopping although Paragon Outlet malls does NOT have that distance requirement anymore from the stores)

Also from Paragon's perspective they have picked a far better spot than downtown Minneapolis (I'm sure they don't really care about improving the quality of shopping downtown lol) They will be next to the MOA so shoppers can easily drive or BRT their way to the outlet mall for better discounts! :twisted: Not all types of stores fit best downtown, I would agree it would have been AMAZING if they set up shop along Nicollet Mall but it's still America where car is still king and having easy access via car is most important, though being on the red line makes is an added perk IMO that will make it much more accessible and future transit friendly (frequency of buses can always be added in 5-8 years if needed)

If anybody here can explain to me HOW Paragon Outlet Malls can be profitable with lower margins (and extra transport costs) and high costs of downtown please let me know ;) then maybe we would have a shot at attracting them to downtown...

MNdible
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby MNdible » December 10th, 2012, 3:40 pm

Outlet Mall bargains? Not so much.

Lancestar2

Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby Lancestar2 » December 10th, 2012, 6:41 pm

MNdible wrote:Outlet Mall bargains? Not so much.

Well that is true too. Not everything is always a deal I do believe they make special items for the outlet malls too though they do ship items back to HQ to resell to a wholesaler or outlet mall. Also keep in mind that story is talking about outlet malls around NYC which I would assume is a very different market than many Midwest metro areas. I remember seeing discounted Hollister shirts about 50-80% off the original price years ago at the Hollister Outlet store in the MOA (the store has been closed for a good while now) I still think they have a lot of good deals provided you research the item your looking a bit to know the general prices first.

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby mnmike » December 12th, 2012, 11:59 am

Lancestar2 wrote:

As for building outlet stores downtown? :lol: Outlet stores are by design sell clearance "junk" that didn't sell at FULL price OR SALE price! so they need to 1 ship it back to the outlet store (added cost) and then mark it down further! Far less margins for profits that's why traditionally outlet stores have been in rural areas (also because in the past stores demanded outlet malls be far away to prevent any cross over shopping although Paragon Outlet malls does NOT have that distance requirement anymore from the stores)

...
I think most of us are familiar with what outlet stores are and how they work, but thanks for the condescending explanation. :)

Um, have you seen the stores that seem to do well downtown lately? Marshall's (more or less an outlet store), Len(an outlet store, and also an outlet to Len is downtown and seems to do well), Saks off fifth(an outlet store), Target ( an affordable store). And what kind of stores have left? Saks Fifth Ave, Williams Sonoma, Crate and Barrel, Polo Ralph Lauren... I wasn't saying build an outlet mall downtown, but these(more outlet-ish lower cost) type of stores seem to do well with the lunch and after work browsing crowd, which is kind of a captive audience. Downtown already has one of the(maybe the) biggest off fifth outlet...just thought it might be a neat idea to expand on...just a thought. And unfortunately, I think you are putting downtown Minneapolis on way too much of a pedestal retail wise. Maybe things will turn around in the near future, but for now it has a hard time attracting much of anything aside from lunch break restaurants.

I really think more outlet-ish/lower cost type stores would do well downtown. DSW, Nordstrom Rack, Filenes Basement, H&M and the like...downtown would have a much better shot at landing these type of places than anything more upscale...I think it is kind of funny that you find that idea laughable. I don't know, but it seems like you may not have much understanding of the realities of the downtown Minneapolis retail market. Do you get downtown often?

On a side note, who knows if the giant saks outlet downtown even really does well? They probably just have a really cheap lease that runs through 2015, and found it cheaper to keep something there...(which adds to my thoughts about other outlet type places locating in Mpls...downtown retail space can be pretty cheap if it is hard to fill). Does anyone actually know if they do well on sales? In any event, certainly this type of store seems to do better than upscale downtown. And now I am way off track...sorry!

Lancestar2

Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby Lancestar2 » December 13th, 2012, 7:01 am

mnmike wrote: I think most of us are familiar with what outlet stores are and how they work, but thanks for the condescending explanation. :)
Sorry, not intending to sound condescending I just have a lot annoyance with the lack of retail downtown I think I was funneling that a bit :oops: I do agree some places like Marshalls are very successful downtown however I just realized that I could have a better quality of life out in the suburbs and still maintain a mostly car free lifestyle! For example down in hopkins around the Knoxwood Mall granted the streets are not very walking friendly but during the summer would be very easy to bike around that area and has far greater shopping than downtown! Same situation with several other locations downtown is void of retail so much it seems like nothing of substance could pop up for the low end consumer.

But staying on topic I do wonder if much more than Marshalls could be supported because with low margins they need to make up the loss in volume instead so they need higher traffic to be profitable ie they need to more "successful than your regular store" Either way myself I would consider my a thrifty consumer :D and I just don't see downtown being a outlet for thrifty consumers possible room for a few small stores say 5,000 sq. feet worth I guess but I doubt you would find anyone really wanting to commit though city center has a lot of open space I guess it would be a good spot if any new businesses were willing...

Nothing of substance will develop downtown for the thrifty consumer and I think the suburbs are where to be at if your looking for a good deal. I would say just south of 94 by big lots is a area that has potential but it's so filthy and neglected even I don't have hope that area will improve within the next few years... :lol: Hopefully I am wrong but I think that area would be 10x better location for a outlet center even if it was very compact. As for downtown I don't see how you could really fit more outlet retail downtown but I do know you really can't use Target in a defense that more outlet retail could be possible ;)

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby mnmike » December 13th, 2012, 9:18 am

Wow, you aren't even making sense. In places that are "void of retail" you are much more likely to see a low end store pop up than something upscale. How is Target not an example of how lower cost retail does better downtown? And what do you mean you don't see how you could fit more outlet retail downtown? There are thousands and thousands of square feet of vacant retail space downtown. Also, I am blinded by emoticons. I give up on this one...I tried to make some valid points, and you just come back with responses that are all over the place and paragraphs that are all one sentence! And now I am being condescending! oops.

PS, that would be Knollwood Mall...not Knoxwood.

Anyway, how about that Eagan?...

Lancestar2

Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby Lancestar2 » December 13th, 2012, 6:21 pm

mnmike wrote: I give up on this one...I tried to make some valid points, and you just come back with responses that are all over the place and paragraphs that are all one sentence! [highlight=#ff0000]And[/highlight] now I am being condescending! oops.

PS, that would be Knollwood Mall...not Knoxwood.

Anyway, how about that Eagan?...
If your going to be "condescending" and complaining about grammer issues at least take the time to proof read your posts ;)

From my work experience from Target sections of the store like electronics make up for other sections of the store which either loose money or about break even such as food and clothing. Although every store is different and every store sells different numbers of merchandise and they can still make a profit. I don't think you can put Target into the same category as outlet clothing stores ( I know call me crazy :roll: ) A store that can sell cheap trendy clothes that also sells thousands of dollars in electronics and other goods each week really is really different than a outlet store that is selling 100% discounted cheap trendy clothes.

Of course their is thousands and thousands of retail space sitting vacant (wonder why) If they opened up 200,000 sq.ft. of outlet retail or even 100,000 sq. ft. It would Impossible for those stores to get the traffic (unless every worker downtown was required to buy 2 items each week) and sales enough to keep them all profitable! Minneapolis has a core of what 30,000 people? Accessibility is extremely limited for car usage as most of the customers would drive at Paragons outlet malls they all are located in more suburban areas outside of downtown areas.

What you are suggesting is a completely new concept a outlet mall in a downtown area! Sure I would be the first to admit it would be a amazing idea! Also could be achievable in say 25 years when downtown has a larger population and even a population outside of downtown that uses LRT to get to work and shop ect ect.

Also why I suggest their is maybe 5,000 sq ft. that could be used for "discount retail" such as outlet or other low end is because slow expansion of retail is more sustainable and realistic.

Then again what do I know lol I'm sure when they built the MOA sombody said "OMG that's to big it's never gonna work!" :lol:

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby mnmike » December 13th, 2012, 9:07 pm

I have said over and over...I wasn't suggesting an outlet mall downtown...just a couple more stores like Saks off Fifth. That's all.

QuietBlue
Target Field
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby QuietBlue » February 19th, 2013, 2:41 pm

I don't think any more stores have been announced since Sak's Off Fifth back in December. It seems like we should have heard more concrete details by now. I know the City of Eagan approved the builder for the ramp recently, but that's all.

eluko
Metrodome
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Re: Upscale outlet mall in Eagan

Postby eluko » April 15th, 2013, 4:18 pm

Eagan has recently approved the $19 million parking ramp for the mall. It was decided on 2 levels with the 3rd to be built later.
Here's a view of the rendering from Cedar Grove Parkway:
Image
http://eagan.patch.com/articles/eagan-c ... rking-ramp

minnyapple
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Paragon Outlets - Eagan

Postby minnyapple » May 7th, 2013, 12:38 pm

Land deal makes way for Eagan outlet mall http://www.startribune.com/blogs/206430 ... ommentHere

minnyapple
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Paragon Outlets - Eagan

Postby minnyapple » June 4th, 2013, 1:14 pm

Groundbreaking Today. Work begins and more tenants revealed. http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... nants.html


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