Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

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mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » September 26th, 2018, 8:50 am

It's also ridiculous how all of the stations south of 46th Street will require the buses to leave the MnPASS lane, the interior lane with transit advantage, and cross numerous other lanes to access the station through right hand exits/entrances.

"LRT on rubber tires"

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 26th, 2018, 9:28 am

Qhaberl wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 7:17 am
Why didn’t they make all of the Orange line stations inline station? How much time is going to be wasted exiting and re-entering the freeway?
Short answer, politics & money. Those can be done later, when there's actual money or will. Neither are very high at the moment - so this is better than nothing. But not ideal, of course.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » September 26th, 2018, 10:31 am

When the Orange Line starts operating will it continue to be referred to as 98th Street Station? Seems odd when it already has the name South Bloomington Transit Center.

Silophant
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Silophant » September 26th, 2018, 10:31 am

My hope is that when the various bridges get a complete rebuild, on-line stations similar to 46th St will be built into them. Those are all decades away, though.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 26th, 2018, 11:01 am

Silophant wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 10:31 am
My hope is that when the various bridges get a complete rebuild, on-line stations similar to 46th St will be built into them. Those are all decades away, though.
Agreed - but who knows what another decade will mean with regard to transit investment/car driving/people movement. It could happen sooner if this proves to be beneficial.

Korh
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Korh » September 26th, 2018, 11:10 am

The project mentions that the southbound I-35W ramp will reopen only to buses some time this fall, any word on how long till the northbound ramp is open as well?

mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » September 26th, 2018, 12:12 pm

Silophant wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 10:31 am
My hope is that when the various bridges get a complete rebuild, on-line stations similar to 46th St will be built into them. Those are all decades away, though.
Our record isn't too good on this... When will we be getting Orange Line stations at Franklin or 38th St?

DanPatchToget
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » September 26th, 2018, 12:20 pm

If we can build an online station for a route with minuscule ridership four years after it opened (the Red Line) then we can do it for a route that will be much more successful.

Silophant
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Silophant » September 26th, 2018, 12:58 pm

mattaudio wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 12:12 pm
Silophant wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 10:31 am
My hope is that when the various bridges get a complete rebuild, on-line stations similar to 46th St will be built into them. Those are all decades away, though.
Our record isn't too good on this... When will we be getting Orange Line stations at Franklin or 38th St?
2048?

tmart
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby tmart » September 26th, 2018, 4:16 pm

Qhaberl wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 7:17 am
Why didn’t they make all of the Orange line stations inline station? How much time is going to be wasted exiting and re-entering the freeway?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Because this project is an afterthought to place a transit fig-leaf on a massive highway reconstruction project.

There will be some tangible transit improvements in the end, but this is not good transit planning (in fact, the legislature made most of the important decisions before the planners got their hands on it, hence the lack of an alternatives analysis or mode choice study) and the transit outcomes are not even close to the best we could do for one of the busiest corridors in the state.

phop
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby phop » September 26th, 2018, 7:24 pm

tmart wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 4:16 pm
Qhaberl wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 7:17 am
Why didn’t they make all of the Orange line stations inline station? How much time is going to be wasted exiting and re-entering the freeway?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Because this project is an afterthought to place a transit fig-leaf on a massive highway reconstruction project.

There will be some tangible transit improvements in the end, but this is not good transit planning (in fact, the legislature made most of the important decisions before the planners got their hands on it, hence the lack of an alternatives analysis or mode choice study) and the transit outcomes are not even close to the best we could do for one of the busiest corridors in the state.
To be fair, the best enhancements are happening on the portion under heavy construction. Buses should be able to run solely on MN-Pass lanes from downtown until 66th street station. Stations further down 35W will be the ones with a more "tacked-on" feel.

mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » September 27th, 2018, 7:40 am

True, but that's because we'll only have two stations on the entire 7+ mile stretch between downtown and 66th Street.

The Orange Line could have really benefited from stations at Franklin, 38th St, Nicollet near 60th, etc.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » September 27th, 2018, 4:26 pm

Maybe also Diamond Lake Road?

tmart
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby tmart » September 27th, 2018, 9:43 pm

mattaudio wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 7:40 am
True, but that's because we'll only have two stations on the entire 7+ mile stretch between downtown and 66th Street.

The Orange Line could have really benefited from stations at Franklin, 38th St, Nicollet near 60th, etc.
Totally agreed. Part of the reason I emphasize that this was a freeway reconstruction first and a transit project second (a distant second) is because the transit planning mirrors the nature of the interstate--a bypass for getting commuters through South Minneapolis, not a tool for navigating within Minneapolis.

MNdible
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby MNdible » September 28th, 2018, 8:48 am

If the issue is really moving people within Minneapolis, there are a lot of local buses (and aBRT coming online) that are much better attuned to doing that job. It's actually OK to have different transit elements serving different purposes. And unless there's existing (and significant) crosstown feeder routes feeding a given station, it's very hard to justify its existence. The only additional stop that might pass muster would be Franklin, and there it only makes sense for reverse commuters since it's so close to downtown. Presumably adding a Franklin station would require taking more land since the cross section is very much maxed out.

Oreos&Milk
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Oreos&Milk » September 28th, 2018, 10:49 am

MNdible wrote:
September 28th, 2018, 8:48 am
If the issue is really moving people within Minneapolis, there are a lot of local buses (and aBRT coming online) that are much better attuned to doing that job. It's actually OK to have different transit elements serving different purposes. And unless there's existing (and significant) crosstown feeder routes feeding a given station, it's very hard to justify its existence. The only additional stop that might pass muster would be Franklin, and there it only makes sense for reverse commuters since it's so close to downtown. Presumably adding a Franklin station would require taking more land since the cross section is very much maxed out.
completely agree. Anyone riding the orange line will be able to get off at Lake St. (maybe 46th if Kmart is still there by the time the lines open) and transfer to the Nicollet rapid bus line to a destination along that corridor. It's a great idea. A fast few stop orange line, next to a slower more local stop Nicollet line. They go hand in hand.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » October 11th, 2018, 9:47 am

Having looked at the redevelopment plans for Burnsville Center, which you can find here (its the October 9th City Council Work Session):
http://www.ci.burnsville.mn.us/index.aspx?nid=158, I'm wondering how the Orange Line will be routed assuming this is how the development will look. Seems like, coming from the north, buses get off I-35 at Co. Rd. 42 and go to the center of Burnsville Center, and then the park & ride ramp proposed on the southeastern quadrant. Does this assume the Orange Line will terminate at Burnsville Center, or would Lakeville not be pleased with that?

Oreos&Milk
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Oreos&Milk » October 11th, 2018, 10:27 am

DanPatchToget wrote:
October 11th, 2018, 9:47 am
Having looked at the redevelopment plans for Burnsville Center, which you can find here (its the October 9th City Council Work Session):
http://www.ci.burnsville.mn.us/index.aspx?nid=158, I'm wondering how the Orange Line will be routed assuming this is how the development will look. Seems like, coming from the north, buses get off I-35 at Co. Rd. 42 and go to the center of Burnsville Center, and then the park & ride ramp proposed on the southeastern quadrant. Does this assume the Orange Line will terminate at Burnsville Center, or would Lakeville not be pleased with that?
hmm..

IF that is what the redevelopment looks like (to bad SuperTarget and CostCo didn't get the memo before investing millions in stores) I wonder if they extend Nicollet Ave via bridge (or better yet tunnel) to the center with a trail/sidewalk/bus lanes similar to the 494 Orange line tunnel. Then Orange line busses could travel down Nicollet Ave from Heart of Burnsville to Burnsville Center. Not sure if it's a better option but it could provide a station at the Civic Center Park Amphitheater. Which if that corridor could be redeveloped.... assuming if Center Village is built out and Heart of Burnsville is built out and starting to expand outward a bit more... The entire corridor would look pretty awesome with a Ford Plant like redevelopment packed full of 6 floor buildings a few larger high rises, a redeveloped amphitheater & park space, and being right on the Orange line... Just saying, a lot of potential. Not so sure it's feasible.. but I feel like dreaming the dream this morning!!

As for extending the Orange line.. I just don't see much realistic pathway to extending the Orange line past Burnsville Center. I think at best we might get a "extension" to the recently built Lakeville Park and Ride, and MAYBE another location in Lakeville, but that stop would have limited service. Doubt Lakeville would want a late night bus dumping off people that could be coming directly from downtown! :shock: Maybe all busses during rush hour would service the Lakeville station, then evengins 1/2 and late night 1/3 or less of business would service the station. Seems like a realistic option IF enough people keep complaining about not having access once the Orange line is up and running. As for full fledge expansion, McStop don't need a bus every 7-15min. MAYBE once an hour, but even that is wasting money where other routes are better investments.

*EDIT*

Oh and forgot to say BRAVO on them for planing the transit hub NOT on Cedar Ave! I like how it's a bit farther south and next to the freeway. Could allow for a Online station with a elevated or tunnel walkway across I-35. Great opportunity to build a condensed housing area around a transit station. (sure not talking sky scrapers, duh! but still density better than co. road 42. Thumbs up on that ! BIG THUMBS! :D
Last edited by Oreos&Milk on October 11th, 2018, 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » October 11th, 2018, 10:29 am

Strange they call it Center Village... https://www.emporis.com/buildings/12270 ... lis-mn-usa


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