Bicycle Infrastructure

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
intercomnut
Union Depot
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby intercomnut » March 27th, 2017, 10:09 pm

SkyScraperKid wrote:
March 27th, 2017, 5:26 pm
Why would we place an east bike lane 1,300 ft. away from the west bound lane? Although if you think a 8-10ft. buffer space that will never have an functional usage is a positive thing then I guess you just won't get it.
Being able to bike 8-10 feet away from speeding cars makes me feel more safe riding on 28th St. I'd say that's a functional usage.

amiller92
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby amiller92 » March 28th, 2017, 9:37 am

SkyScraperKid wrote:
March 27th, 2017, 2:09 pm
no doubt it would take some investment, however if the hospital was willing to reallocate that existing car lane space into a potential greenway then they would become directly connected to a greenway that would greatly benefit employees by having a new bike friendly route to work.
I'm super skeptical that the hospital would be willing to punch a hole in a building and give up it's main entrance driveway for a greenway.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SurlyLHT » March 28th, 2017, 10:09 am

A couple observations on the 28th/26th street bike lanes.

A) I think a 2-way lane on 26th would have been a better option, given that it's farther from the Greenway and would have been disruptive to traffic.

B) I'm curious if it would be a more efficient use of road space to have a mild curb or etc. between the bikes and traffic with a narrower buffer then the wider buffer with the while poles. (Which seem to have disappeared from the 3rd Ave lanes Downtown.) I'm for bicycle infrastructure, but we shouldn't be anymore disruptive than we need to be.

C) It would have been sweet it they put a cyclotrack like on 26th Street N. on 26th St S.

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EOst
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby EOst » March 28th, 2017, 10:19 am

Some quick responses:

A) I have mixed feelings on making 26th/28th two-ways, especially given how much they're being throated down through the Wedge. With one lane (in the Wedge), crossing at Bryant should become *very* easy. That's much less true in a two-way design. You also have to deal somehow with the transition from two-way streets west of Lyndale/Nicollet/35/wherever and the one-way pair east of there.

B) Again, I think a lot of the width of the buffer is about providing space for vehicles to pull off when emergency vehicles come through, and for other vehicles to get around obstructions. Otherwise they could (would?) have done a parking-protected lane like the one in Stadium Village, or like they've proposed at 26th/Nicollet. But the fewer general traffic lanes on these streets the better, IMO.

(fwiw on 3rd downtown: the posts haven't been replaced because they're waiting on resurfacing the road this summer.)

C) Absolutely, especially if it went all the way to Hiawatha.

mattaudio
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby mattaudio » March 28th, 2017, 10:21 am

Why not leave them as one-lane one way west of Lyndale, but two-way them east of Lyndale? Or at least east of Blaisdell/Nicollet?

amiller92
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby amiller92 » March 28th, 2017, 11:59 am

SurlyLHT wrote:
March 28th, 2017, 10:09 am
I'm for bicycle infrastructure, but we shouldn't be anymore disruptive than we need to be.
Not sure what you mean. We should be narrowing driving lanes as much as possible to slow speeding cars.

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sdho
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby sdho » March 28th, 2017, 12:51 pm

mattaudio wrote:
March 28th, 2017, 10:21 am
Why not leave them as one-lane one way west of Lyndale, but two-way them east of Lyndale? Or at least east of Blaisdell/Nicollet?
Aren't the biggest traffic drivers east of Nicollet? (Abbott/Childrens, Wells Fargo)

The one-ways are efficient for motorized traffic and bicycle traffic alike. Although speeds could be lower, the one-way flow makes it easier to cross the street, because there's only direction to negotiate with. They don't have the land use to be commercial main streets (except right by Nicollet). So what's the point of changing something that works really well now?

mattaudio
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby mattaudio » March 28th, 2017, 12:58 pm

Efficient? Nope. Do you know how circuitous the routings can be for motorists coming to or from these institutional campuses? And don't get me started on the 11's routing.

Safe? Nope. I encourage you to try and cross 28th St on foot or bike at 5th Ave S. Four lanes of 45+ MPH traffic coming at you.

I can't imagine how anyone could look at today's 26th or 28th Sts and claim they work really well now. Including for motorists.

amiller92
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby amiller92 » March 28th, 2017, 1:55 pm

Yeah, they don't work very well in my (irregular) experience.

mattaudio
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby mattaudio » April 19th, 2017, 2:36 pm


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EOst
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby EOst » April 20th, 2017, 7:25 pm

MnDOT will be showing off their proposal for Snelling (Hewitt to Como) on 4/26 at Ginkgo Coffeehouse. Not sure if I can share the documents here, but I think a lot of people will be pleased.

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EOst
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby EOst » April 26th, 2017, 9:17 am

^Snelling would be shrunk down to two lanes in each direction from Hewitt to Como to allow for 6'-7' protected bike lanes, with a 6' median (possibly with a low fence as well) between Como and Taylor. 10' MUPs on the Pierce Butler and Energy Park ramps. Sidewalks on same level as bike lane, also widened.

grant1simons2
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby grant1simons2 » April 26th, 2017, 9:30 am

How would this interact with A Line?

David Greene
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby David Greene » April 26th, 2017, 11:09 am

Coming late to the 26th/28th discussion. I had similar discussion on Facebook where I first saw the plans.

Overall, I am cautiously optimistic about the potions through the Wedge. I do worry that the large buffer will make drivers feel like they can go fast, just as they do now. But one lane is a gigantic improvement.

These streets should definitely be two-way east of Lyndale. I'd prefer them to be two-way in the Wedge as well, for calming and ease of navigation. I was hoping for something like one parking lane, two narrow driving lanes and a protected bikeway.

Is there any traffic study showing the origins/destinations of the traffic on 26th and 28th? I suspect that with Midtown LRT (through-routed to Eden Prairies and/or West End) and some strategically placed park and rides, we could reduce the traffic volume considerably.

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Mooglemuffins
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Mooglemuffins » April 26th, 2017, 11:33 am

David Greene wrote:
April 26th, 2017, 11:09 am
Is there any traffic study showing the origins/destinations of the traffic on 26th and 28th? I suspect that with Midtown LRT (through-routed to Eden Prairies and/or West End) and some strategically placed park and rides, we could reduce the traffic volume considerably.
A Midtown LRT and park and rides would be amazing. My wife works in the Wells Fargo campus and goes to it in the morning on 26th and back home on 28th in the afternoon. It's always such atrocious traffic on those. Crazy how a 2 mile trip can take 30 mins when things are bad. We're lucky that we live so close but there are so many of her coworkers there coming from halfway across the metro that would totally take advantage of an LRT coming along that way and not having to drive in.

LyndaleHoosier
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby LyndaleHoosier » April 26th, 2017, 7:39 pm

I'm not against the calming of traffic on 28th street as I live in Lowry Hill East just off of 28th near the Midtown Greenway. I drive to work and in the morning traffic is usually backed up close to Bryant Ave at the Lyndal & 28th traffic signal with two lanes and it is usually a couple phases of the light to make it through. Wonder what that will be like when it's one lane and if the traffic will back up to Colfax or Dupont?

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Mooglemuffins
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Mooglemuffins » April 26th, 2017, 8:31 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if it backed up that far in that case. If only they could set it up so 26th and 28th have priority at those busy before/after work times, it's all those lights that get you especially when there is traffic backed up. Whenever my wife gets stuck it's always because the lights every block only last long enough to get a few cars through in the backup so it takes several cycles just to go a block. Doesn't help that along with 26th and 28th being major east/west routes they cross a bunch of large north/south streets as well. Just a sticky situation all around.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 26th, 2017, 8:58 pm

These anecdotes are odd because my experience on 26th in the PM (coming from Chicago Ave to Nicollet to head north) and 28th in the AM (Lyndale to Nicollet) is fairly fast (if a bit chaotic in the PM). I guess I can't say anything about 28th west of Lyndale (I come from CARAG and drive up Lyndale to head east on 28th), but in general I think things will figure themselves out. Blaisdell south of Lake has gone from a 1+ block backup at the 35th St light at PM rush, taking 2-3 cycles to get through 35th (with 0-1 then at 36th depending on how close you were to 35th when it got the green) to now 1-2 cycles. People shifted time, routes, whatever.

I should also put a plug in here for the corner ramp construction work at both 35th and 36th that not only temporarily replaced the lights with stop signs, but removed the SB right turn lane at both corners - and everything is *still* fine (I would say that without recording my time it's on par with the light timing situation). We should consider making it permanent.

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Mooglemuffins
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Mooglemuffins » April 26th, 2017, 9:18 pm

RailBaronYarr wrote:
April 26th, 2017, 8:58 pm
These anecdotes are odd because my experience on 26th in the PM (coming from Chicago Ave to Nicollet to head north) and 28th in the AM (Lyndale to Nicollet) is fairly fast (if a bit chaotic in the PM). I guess I can't say anything about 28th west of Lyndale (I come from CARAG and drive up Lyndale to head east on 28th), but in general I think things will figure themselves out. Blaisdell south of Lake has gone from a 1+ block backup at the 35th St light at PM rush, taking 2-3 cycles to get through 35th (with 0-1 then at 36th depending on how close you were to 35th when it got the green) to now 1-2 cycles. People shifted time, routes, whatever.
For us, we're coming from Minnehaha to Wells Fargo Campus on 26th in the AM and Wells Fargo Campus to Hiawatha on 28th in the PM. The part that always seems to jam up for us is the area before and around the hospital. Once we get past Chicago/Portland things seem to be okay it's just the couple of blocks leading up to the hospital that always suck for us.

cnelson
Block E
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby cnelson » April 27th, 2017, 8:30 am

LyndaleHoosier wrote:
April 26th, 2017, 7:39 pm
I'm not against the calming of traffic on 28th street as I live in Lowry Hill East just off of 28th near the Midtown Greenway. I drive to work and in the morning traffic is usually backed up close to Bryant Ave at the Lyndal & 28th traffic signal with two lanes and it is usually a couple phases of the light to make it through. Wonder what that will be like when it's one lane and if the traffic will back up to Colfax or Dupont?

At the public meeting last month for the next phase of the bike lane construction, they did say they would be adjusting the timing of the lights here to compensate for the single lane of traffic.

I live a couple blocks from this intersection. I normally take the bus to work (Midtown Exchange), but would use car2go (RIP) if I was running late. At around 8am it would take 8-10 minutes to get from Lyndale to Chicago Ave on 28th and I'd always get through Lyndale on a single light cycle. There's a bit of a bottleneck around Chicago that could be improved with an adjustment of the timing on the Park/Portland/Chicago lights, but overall traffic seems to move through the Hennepin - Chicago stretch pretty well in the morning.


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