Bicycle Infrastructure

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
SurlyLHT
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SurlyLHT » November 20th, 2017, 8:59 am

I don't believe that it's Eastbound. I seem to keenly remember signs with the speed limit and etc. for vehicles going east. I agree they should put in bollards or etc. I also thing they should be very easy to retract given that if there was a disaster or etc. this bridge could be critical for getting emergency vehicles across the river.

MNdible
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby MNdible » November 20th, 2017, 12:59 pm

I think it was maybe you that suggested retractable bollards as a solution somewhere else. Automated retractable bollards are very expensive, and I suspect are also not likely to perform particularly well in our environment. I'm not sure what they're actually using at Cedar Lake Trail -- any photos showing this? My sense is that while they're a theoretical solution to the problem, because of cost and maintenance, it's unlikely to be a widespread solution.

tmart
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby tmart » November 20th, 2017, 1:34 pm

MNdible wrote:
November 20th, 2017, 12:59 pm
I think it was maybe you that suggested retractable bollards as a solution somewhere else. Automated retractable bollards are very expensive, and I suspect are also not likely to perform particularly well in our environment. I'm not sure what they're actually using at Cedar Lake Trail -- any photos showing this? My sense is that while they're a theoretical solution to the problem, because of cost and maintenance, it's unlikely to be a widespread solution.
When you say automated, are you talking about a system that detects authorized vehicles and retracts on its own? That seems to me to be overkill (not to mention more vulnerable to breakage and abuse). I feel like it's entirely reasonable to ask someone who wants to take the extraordinary step of driving in a bike/pedestrian path to stop and use some sort of control panel to gain access.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SurlyLHT » November 20th, 2017, 1:37 pm

This might seem odd, but does it really matter if a car wanders onto a path? Yes, you could have incidents like in NYC, but the Dinkytown Greenway isn't that heavily used to be a target. The Midtown Greenway yes. Also, there are likely cameras on the path and perhaps the bridge that could catch an offending driver.

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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby MNdible » November 20th, 2017, 2:13 pm

tmart wrote:
November 20th, 2017, 1:34 pm
When you say automated, are you talking about a system that detects authorized vehicles and retracts on its own? That seems to me to be overkill (not to mention more vulnerable to breakage and abuse). I feel like it's entirely reasonable to ask someone who wants to take the extraordinary step of driving in a bike/pedestrian path to stop and use some sort of control panel to gain access.
When I say automated, I mean that there's a hydraulic piston that raises and lowers the bollard, as opposed to somebody having to pull a very heavy piece of steel out of the ground using their legs (don't lift with your back!). The specifics of what actually controls the piston aren't really of any consequence, cost or maintenance-wise.

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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby EOst » November 20th, 2017, 2:36 pm

I saw a school bus that had somehow gotten down to Bridge 9 the other day. Looked pretty stuck.

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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby tmart » November 20th, 2017, 4:42 pm

MNdible wrote:
November 20th, 2017, 2:13 pm
tmart wrote:
November 20th, 2017, 1:34 pm
When you say automated, are you talking about a system that detects authorized vehicles and retracts on its own? That seems to me to be overkill (not to mention more vulnerable to breakage and abuse). I feel like it's entirely reasonable to ask someone who wants to take the extraordinary step of driving in a bike/pedestrian path to stop and use some sort of control panel to gain access.
When I say automated, I mean that there's a hydraulic piston that raises and lowers the bollard, as opposed to somebody having to pull a very heavy piece of steel out of the ground using their legs (don't lift with your back!). The specifics of what actually controls the piston aren't really of any consequence, cost or maintenance-wise.
Well, I can certainly imagine a system that automates not just the lifting/lowering, but the conditions for triggering, which would be consequentially more expensive and difficult to maintain! :)

I'm curious what makes even simple retractable bollards so expensive to maintain. I've always heard them cited as a very cost-effective safety improvement.

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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby MNdible » November 20th, 2017, 5:05 pm

tmart wrote:
November 20th, 2017, 4:42 pm
I'm curious what makes even simple retractable bollards so expensive to maintain. I've always heard them cited as a very cost-effective safety improvement.
Not my area of expertise, but I've heard the opposite. Maybe there's a better option out there, which is why I'm curious what they're actually using at the Cedar Lake Trail. In general, hydraulic pistons don't work very well in the cold; since these are at ground level, they're subject to gravel, salt, salty water, etc. getting into the works and gumming everything up.

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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby mister.shoes » November 21st, 2017, 12:38 pm

I've seen the kind that hinge at ground-level instead of being lowered straight into the ground: pull a pin to release the lock and fold it down. The profile is low enough that it passes easily under a vehicle.

There are downsides, of course: no authorization controls to limit who is able/allowed to pull said pin (would prevent accidental ingress, though) and the pins are nowhere near sturdy enough to stop a determined vehicle (though this could allow an emergency vehicle in a big hurry to just run it over?). Oh, also, snow and ice, but that applies to everything movable in this part of the country.
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grant1simons2
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby grant1simons2 » January 8th, 2018, 3:51 pm

Nice! They're filling in the Hiawatha Trail Gap that persists right near the Sabo Bridge.

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/cip/future ... -trail-gap

SurlyLHT
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SurlyLHT » January 8th, 2018, 3:57 pm

Given that this dead-ends on 32nd and you still have to cross lake at grade I rather the city take the $1.35 million and build protected bike lanes. (I cut through here all the time and there isn't much time savings compared to crossing Hiawatha. at 28th.)

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby FISHMANPET » January 8th, 2018, 4:11 pm

Not only does it dead end at 32nd, crossing Hiawatha at 32nd to actually get back to the Hiawatha Trail isn't part of this project. So it's really not closing the gap.
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SurlyLHT
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SurlyLHT » January 8th, 2018, 4:19 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:
January 8th, 2018, 4:11 pm
Not only does it dead end at 32nd, crossing Hiawatha at 32nd to actually get back to the Hiawatha Trail isn't part of this project. So it's really not closing the gap.
The 32nd intersection is pretty dangerous for cyclists with the LRT there. The light randomly changes red and the green is really short. (I was crossing here a couple of months ago and my front tire got stuck in the tracks as I tried get onto the new trail next to the Blue Line flats. I went down and banged my knee and had to frantically hobble to get out of the way of an oncoming train as the gates came down.) It's safer for people to cross at 28th. I wish there was a way to kill this project and have the money put to other bike projects.

amiller92
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby amiller92 » January 9th, 2018, 10:53 am

FISHMANPET wrote:
January 8th, 2018, 4:11 pm
Not only does it dead end at 32nd, crossing Hiawatha at 32nd to actually get back to the Hiawatha Trail isn't part of this project. So it's really not closing the gap.
What do you mean? There's a sharrow right there on 32nd on the east side and then a whole, what, 6-foot bike lane on the west side??

But, yeah, I don't really see the point of this. It doesn't look like an improvement crossing Lake - which to me is the biggest issue with this stretch - and it's arguably redundant of the new path (not sure who owns it) in front of the Blue Line Flats. Also, the sidewalk is not as wide as prefered, but it's not like there are all that many pedestrians walking between the train tracks and Hiawatha there.

Little to no improvement and a worse crossing of Hiawatha does not seem worthwhile. Maybe if there was a way to extend it further but look like that would require redevelop of the storage place, among others.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SurlyLHT » January 10th, 2018, 9:06 am

I used to bike through where this trail is going to go all the time until I found out a squabble between the homeless left a person dead over there. I'm at least under the impression that this is separate from another murder that had occurred near there a couple years ago. The homeless moved over there after being kicked out from under the bridge. I would say there are some safety concerns with this trail unless things change with the pressure the community has to manage the homeless after the stabbing at the LRT station. It's honestly one of the few places I don't feel super safe biking in within Mpls.

Multimodal
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Multimodal » February 9th, 2018, 5:04 pm

The 2018 Edina Bike & Pedestrian Plan is being presented to the planning commission:

https://edina.novusagenda.com/AgendaPub ... tingID=267

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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Multimodal » February 11th, 2018, 12:35 pm

Very disappointing that St. Louis Park’s “bike infrastructure” along Wooddale Ave. north of 44th Street is just sharrows. Also, sharrows along 38th St. west of France. Sharrows. In 2018.

Along Monterey north of Excelsior Blvd. (think Trader Joe’s), they are thankfully reducing the roadway from 4 lanes to 3, but this will always be a rush hour raceway, and the painted-only bike lanes won’t make people feel comfortable enough to ride here (not the 80% that aren’t racers, anyway).

Did anyone go to this meeting in December? Was there pushback?

https://www.stlouispark.org/home/showdocument?id=7726


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