Bicycle Infrastructure

[mplser]

anyone know why they didnt put green over the concrete next to the tracks?

[cowboyjones]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democrac ... ing-v-cars

tl;dr In the Netherlands, if a bicyclist collides with a vehicle, the driver is liable, no matter the circumstances unless the driver has no control over the vehicle. As a result, its fatality rate per million miles traveled is nearly a quarter of that for here in the states.

I think it would be possible to implement that on a statewide level, but we ought to have improved our bike infrastructure first a bit. Also, since the burden of proof is on the prosecution in our country, we'd have to adapt it a bit, say so that all that needs to be proved is that the bicyclist was hit and it caused damage.

[talindsay]

Considering the differences between Napoleonic Code (the basis of Dutch and most continental countries' laws) and English common law (the basis of US laws), I don't think it's nearly as "possible" as you make it sound. With the presumption of guilt comes a lot of ability to declare a party guilty for a certain type of interaction, regardless of the specifics; English common law presumes innocence, which means specific facts of guilt have to be determined, and that's why no such scheme is likely to work here. Which is a good thing by the way, even if in this specific case it would be handy for the specific interests being advanced.

[bubzki2]

Or, stated differently, their laws are but one factor contributing to injuries, collisions, etc. between bikes and cars. Their streets tend to be narrower, their infrastructure is far more developed, there are orders of magnitude more bikes on the streets and, not least of all, the culture itself is more conducive to cycling. Sorry, cowboy, but I can't buy your summary's methodology. (Full disclosure: I'm an attorney.)

[cowboyjones]

Or, stated differently, their laws are but one factor contributing to injuries, collisions, etc. between bikes and cars. Their streets tend to be narrower, their infrastructure is far more developed, there are orders of magnitude more bikes on the streets and, not least of all, the culture itself is more conducive to cycling. Sorry, cowboy, but I can't buy your summary's methodology. (Full disclosure: I'm an attorney.)

I know, that's why I added the condition that the bike infrastructure would need to be significantly improved. We probably wouldn't have that significant of a reduction in accidents, but I think we could see some, at least in some areas.

Considering the differences between Napoleonic Code (the basis of Dutch and most continental countries' laws) and English common law (the basis of US laws), I don't think it's nearly as "possible" as you make it sound. With the presumption of guilt comes a lot of ability to declare a party guilty for a certain type of interaction, regardless of the specifics; English common law presumes innocence, which means specific facts of guilt have to be determined, and that's why no such scheme is likely to work here. Which is a good thing by the way, even if in this specific case it would be handy for the specific interests being advanced.

Know that too, hence why I said the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Perhaps my conclusion is flawed, but wouldn't the biker just need to prove that he/she was hit and injured, or what else would need to proven to make it conform to common law? And I guess I don't know for sure, but if a pedestrian jay-walks and is hit by a car in the street, is the driver still liable? If he/she is, couldn't that be applied to bikes as well as pedestrians?

[web]

Once Bicycles follow the law where Stop means stop.....

[orangevening]

Once Bicycles follow the law where Stop means stop.....

Ahhh... the old come back when we talk about building new bicycle infrastructure. I wish I would hear complaints about cars not following laws (and I saw a car blow through a red light today) when we spend millions and billions for highnways and bridges. Or even complaints about jaywalkers when we talk about pedestrian safety or new sidewalks.

[web]

well there is a gas tax and registration. shall we have bicycle registration?

[mattaudio]

facepalm.

[mattaudio]

http://chi.streetsblog.org/2013/10/24/n ... any-sense/

[PhilmerPhil]

AANNYWAYYS,

http://mplsbike.org/blog/posts/minneapo ... e-project/

It looks like the nightmare freeways running through neighborhoods (26th and 28th Sts) will be getting protected bike lanes next year. I had heard they were getting resurfaced soon and that bike improvements would possibly be involved, but this is exciting news to me!

[bubzki2]

Whoa! That's huge! If nothing else, maybe that will encourage motorists to remember they're on city streets, not Hiawatha.

[mattaudio]

Good to hear. And I think this brings up the need to re-frame our discussion about our streets here in Minneapolis, especially if people fan the flames on 26/28 like they did Park/Portland.

The discussion needs to be framed as what we want our streets to look like and who they should serve. This has to do with
- Compatibility with adjacent land uses
- Safety (for the armored and the unarmored users of the street)
- Return on investment (how much property tax does the adjacent land use generate compared to how high are long-term liabilities to maintain excessive asphalt).

We also need more examples like Nate Hood's recent article about Milwaukee Ave about how changing our streets can create real value.

The result will be a discussion about what we want to see, rather than the current us-vs-them rants where many drivers see bike advocates stealing lanes used by cars.

It needs to be noted that the problem is too much pavement and not enough traffic calming. The fact that some pavement can be repurposed for bicycles is an additional beneficial outcome of a road diet, but not the primary justification.

[MNdible]

It looks like the nightmare freeways running through neighborhoods (26th and 28th Sts)...

OH, the HORROR.

Any thoughts on how we're going to clear snow from these new protected bike lanes?

[seanrichardryan]

Perhaps bicycle powered snow plows.

I would really prefer those streets be converted to two-ways instead, with additional bike facilities of course.

[mplsjaromir]

A snowplow affixed to a pickup truck.

[alleycat]

Or those sweeper machines they use on campus. They could even convert a few bobcats to this use in winter.

Went to a Hennepin County listening session in North Minneapolis last night in regards to their bicycle plan. They talked briefly about the North Minneapolis greenway. Up here we have great ammenities along the edges (Wirth, Victory, Webber, North Regional). I'm hoping Three Rivers/Hennepin can bring money to the table and make this more than a pie in the sky, maybe in 15 years plan. This and the perpetual it's going to happen 26th Avenue bike boulevard need to move forward.

So sorry south side, north and NE need some of that funding love.

[PhilmerPhil]

OH, the HORROR.

I dunno, I guess I'm crazy, but I really do find 4 lane one ways where people have gotten killed in some of our most dense neighborhoods with high numbers of children horrific. Maybe that perspective is distorted when you only go through the neighborhoods in the driver's seat though.

[woofner]

Per the CLIC report, these will be buffered bike lanes, so they can just be plowed like the rest of the street. No need for the sky to fall. It's somewhat debatable whether 26th/28th are overbuilt west of 35W, but the segment that will get the lanes will be east of 35W, where no one with a grip on sanity will deny that the current design is obsolete, overbuilt, unsafe and unnecessary.

It's interesting that the CLIC budgets $400k for this project when it's just paint (well, thermoplastic in shaved asphalt presumably). I wonder if the bike lanes are paying for the mill-and-overlay here?

Personally I'd prefer a two-way conversion without bike facilities to keeping the one-ways with a buffered bike lanes, but undoubtedly that's too scary and changey for Public Works.

[edited to add links]

[mplser]

"The City of Minneapolis Public Works Department has told us that they will apply for the Green Lane Project, a national effort to promote protected bike lanes."

but the bike lanes won't be protected, just lines on the road?

If what I've seen on park and portland is a preview, then these buffered bike lanes will just be used by cars to pass slow-moving traffic at 45 MPH. not really that big of an improvement, IMO.