Bicycle Infrastructure

[MNdible]

Cross-posting Woofner's recent post about the new bike lanes on the Plymouth Avenue bridge.

This does seem like a really smart use of what was some excess capacity on this stretch. As much as I love having this alternate option to get to Northeast reopened, it's pretty clear that all four lanes aren't needed for auto traffic.

Re: the police camera parked in the bike lane, in the interest of fair play, I'll note that they've had one parked in the middle of a lane of auto traffic on Blaisdell for weeks now, presumably monitoring the semi-notorious Champion's Bar.

[Minneapolisite]

Since we're (somewhat) regularly ranked as the #1 bike-friendly city in the US, why don't any buses have more than two bike racks? Especially on routes that are low frequency. http://sdotblog.seattle.gov/2010/01/20/ ... ee-please/

[Tom H.]

I can confirm that at least some of the Southwest Transit buses have 3-bicycle racks.

[twincitizen]

http://www.southwestjournal.com/news/gr ... iment-ends

From the SW Journal: Bryant Avenue bike lane “experiment” ends

Now, the "bike boulevard" designation and signage obviously aren't going away, but the green stripes will not be repainted right away, or maybe not ever. I know from 2nd hand sources that Metro Transit really wants the bike boulevard moved over to Aldrich, south of 31st Street anyways, to reduce bike-bus conflicts with the Route 4. That is probably a good idea, if properly implemented. It could get more cyclists off of Lyndale (again, south of 31st), since some clearly find the two-block jaunt over to Bryant too cumbersome. Or it could be that they simply prefer the smooth pavement of Lyndale to moon-crater Bryant, which is sort-of understandable. Trading ass/wrist comfort for one's safety/life...debatable. No matter how you slice it, buses and bikes should not be competing with each other for space on Bryant, especially when Aldrich is right freaking there and provides easy access to destinations on both Lyndale and Bryant. Putting the bike blvd on Bryant (south of 31st) was a mis-step by the City IMO.

[mulad]

One of the reasons why I like the idea of cycletracks in many contexts. I'm guessing there wasn't enough room here, but they can eliminate the bus/bike interference problem.

(My other Khan reason for liking cycletracks at the moment is that ridiculously large numbers of people ride on sidewalks, even when bike lanes exist.)

[David Greene]

One reason to have the Bike Boulevard on Bryant is that there is a crossing at Minnehaha creek. Moving it to Aldrich would require two "detours," one over to Aldrich south of 31st and another to get to the creek crossing.

[woofner]

I agree that Bryant makes sense for cyclists. Besides the creek crossing, there's the Greenway ramp and the stupid bike overpass at I-94. Why not move the buses to Lyndale? What is the compelling reason to keep them on Bryant (especially since we're all finally admitting that the 18G is just a "shuttle")?

Edit: of course, even with the buses moved, there is still not room for a real bike facility on Bryant as long as we insist on double car storage lanes.

[PhilmerPhil]

I "overheard" a conversation on Twitter where Brendon Slotterback said that advisory bike lanes might be put in in place of the green paint and sharrows. The advisory bike lanes I've ridden on so far feel great. They can be a very effective tool for streets too narrow for regular bike lanes because motorists really do respect your space when there is a dotted line, and when no cyclists are present, they can have at it and use whatever they need. I'd love to see them more widespread.

[orangevening]

^ funny was thinking the same thing. Work great on 14th, but not so well (to say the least) on Woodale in Edina so thought needs to put into it

[twincitizen]

For the rest of this discussion, can we all just make the assumption that we are talking about the stretch from Lake to 50th? Not the portion between 94 and Lake Street, which is fine and doesn't actually have green paint. South of 50th, again, no buses, so not an issue. 31st to 50th is where the road is wider, uglier, lacking boulevards between the sidewalk and curb, etc. all to accomodate buses.

For those that ride this "bad" stretch, do you get a sense that portions of it are busier than others? How would you feel about pushing to move the buses to Lyndale, at least from 31st to 36th? I think that would be a worthwile effort. 36th to 50th is probably has fewer cyclists, and therefore fewer bus/cyclist conflict points. Getting buses on Lyndale, south of 36th, would be really tough because it gets pretty damn residential at that point. Getting buses off of Bryant, from 31st to 36th (maybe 38th even?) would allow this stretch of Bryant to be narrowed and beautified in a few years when the street gets re-done.

Thoughts? I just don't see the current "shared" section of 31st to 50th as being ideal, for either cyclists or Metro Transit, when there are alternatives. (the one I just described, or putting bikes on Aldrich)

[mattaudio]

I think it could have made a lot of sense to push the buses over to Lyndale. But did that ship sail with the way the bumpouts were built over that stretch?

[mullen]

as someone who has lived in s mpls all of my life there was never an issue with bryant ave. it's alwasy been a good, safe street to bike. imo there was no need to add all of the striping.

and no, buses on lyndale is a bad idea. it's a busy enough street as it is.

[twincitizen]

So the current shared section from 31st to 50th is cool with you guys? I'm not trying to start an argument, I just don't ride it that often and when I have, the green stripe just seems less than ideal. Couldn't we ban parking on one side of the street and have full fledged bike lanes? There has to be a better solution than having bikes in the middle of the street and not letting buses pass. This may seem like a minor point as you are one person riding down the street and may not encounter a bus, but believe me, Metro Transit is not happy with the status quo. The headway on the Route 4 is every 15 minutes, and even more frequent during rush hours. By putting the stripe down the center of the lane, cyclists are unsure/unwilling to move over to allow buses to pass. It is very difficult/stressful for a bus driving to be hugging the brake trying to go 10-15 MPH and it makes for an uncomfortable/slow ride for everyone on the bus.

I'd like to hear your ideas for how buses and bikes can better co-exist on this street (i.e. not re-routing either of them). I'm ok with removing cars (either parked or through traffic)

[woofner]

How about making it a one-way and adding a two-way on-street cycle track to the west side? It's always seemed funny to me that Minneapolis hasn't ever "experimented" with any treatments from North America's only successful cycling city, Montreal.

I would still prefer rerouting the buses to Lyndale; I don't think residential use or busy-ness should disqualify a street from having transit on it. In practice it certainly doesn't.

[MNdible]

Shifting the bikes to Aldrich seems to be a much better solution -- a 330' jog isn't really going to put out bikers too much, and you could very easily create a nice bike boulevard.

[Tcmetro]

Keeping the buses on Bryant is a good idea. It's a nice distance between the Hennepin and Grand Ave buses. If the 4 is ever moved over to Lyndale, then the Grand Ave bus might as well be canceled. The ridership is poor enough as it is.

[orangevening]

If it's late at night or any other non-busy time I'll take Lyndale over Byrant between the bike bridge and 31st. Bryant is safe, but annoyingly slow. I like blvds, but the one on Lyndale between 31st and 40th (?) makes it dangerous for biking and annoying for drivers (probably a good thing though) if buses are moved there. I'd be fine with Aldrich with (avisory?) bike lanes or as a bike blvd. The Byrant bridge over the creek doesn't provide access to the creek trail- you have to swing over to Lyndale anyway.

[twincitizen]

Keeping the buses on Bryant is a good idea. It's a nice distance between the Hennepin and Grand Ave buses. If the 4 is ever moved over to Lyndale, then the Grand Ave bus might as well be canceled. The ridership is poor enough as it is.

I think that's what many of us would have preferred would have happened when Lyndale was reconstructed. Move the 4 to Lyndale, and end the streetcar legacy of Grand and Bryant Ave buses. Buses are so infrequent on Grand, it simply isn't worth having a street with ugly curbs and lacking boulevards. In that scenario (which isn't going to happen now, obviously) both Bryant and Grand could have been narrowed, bump out'd, bike boulevarded, etc. Transit on Grand is pretty much pointless, from a frequency standpoint. It carries the (hourly?) 18G and the various UMN/Ltd./Express routes.

Since that ship has sailed, we probably have to deal with what we've got. I think if there was a way to prioritized buses & bikes on Bryant (from Lake to 50th) AND simultaneously de-prioritize cars, that would make the best of a less than ideal situation.

Sidebar: for lower-traffic arterial/collector streets like Bryant and Grand, I wish the City would stop wasting money on painting yellow centerlines. All they do is discourage cars/buses from passing slower-moving cyclists. I don't think that is the desired outcome for anyone. As a cyclist, I want cars to safely and respectfully pass me, rather than drive behind me at 10-15mph boiling in frustration.

[MNdible]

An aside, but I'm really not sure there's any extra width to be gained out of Grand. I seem to recall having the conversation before, but during the winter, it can be pretty tight to have two cars passing each other. And because of the duplexes and apartment buildings along it, the on-street parking is pretty heavily used.

[woofner]

Cam Gordon will be opposing municipal consent on Hennepin County's redesign of Minnehaha:

Because Hennepin County Public Works staff has been clear that they do not support a cycletrack for Minnehaha since the beginning of the process, it would be helpful at this point to bring in outside experts on cycletracks to redesign the cycletrack layout and present that design to the public. Either of the firms Hennepin County brought to Minneapolis in April would do this work well.


Because I know that both options have not been fully and honestly explored, I am not prepared to vote to give municipal consent to the Minnehaha layout being finalized by Hennepin County staff. I will be urging my colleagues on the Minneapolis City Council to join me in voting against granting municipal consent, so that we can see a better cycletrack option before making a decision with such long-term impacts.

These are just his concluding paragraphs; the full post clearly and dispassionately lays out his reasoning and makes clear why he believes Hennepin County offered a token cycle track rather than a competitive cycle track option.