Bicycle Infrastructure

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
SkyScraperKid
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SkyScraperKid » March 24th, 2017, 7:05 pm

EOst wrote:
March 24th, 2017, 4:31 pm
Things a 27th greenway would have to somehow cross: 10 arterial streets w/o stoplights (Hennepin, Lyndale, Blaisdell, Nicollet, 1st, Park, Portland, Chicago, Bloomington, Cedar), two freeways without bridges (35W and Hiawatha), three superblocks 27th doesn't go through (Wells Fargo, Abbott Northwestern, the industrial area at Hiawatha), and a superblock park (Stewart).
You would still need to keep the stoplights on the major intersections, the one ways crossings may require reduced parking on the corners to allow for more visibility for bikers and possible long term bump outs for bikers to have even more safety. 35W freeway crossing would need a bridge in the long term yes, for the short term could be routed to 26th. Just use the bridge sidewalks and narrow car lanes enough to add jersey barriers. The hospital would only require a particle tunnel as there is an existing pathway under the parking ramp. Short term could be routed down to 28th, & Andersen until funds can be secured for a hospital tunnel & building out the Stewart Park bike greenway trail. Then finally pending a redevelopment a connection can be tied into the existing bridge over Hiawatha, but for the short term greenway could be routed down Longfellow to 28th.

Would be kinda messy for the short term but 20 years from now it would be far better than having east and west bike lanes that would be about 1,350 ft. apart. ...thats one big U turn

BoredAgain
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby BoredAgain » March 24th, 2017, 11:35 pm

EOst wrote:
March 24th, 2017, 4:31 pm
Things a 27th greenway would have to somehow cross: 10 arterial streets w/o stoplights (Hennepin, Lyndale, Blaisdell, Nicollet, 1st, Park, Portland, Chicago, Bloomington, Cedar), two freeways without bridges (35W and Hiawatha), three superblocks 27th doesn't go through (Wells Fargo, Abbott Northwestern, the industrial area at Hiawatha), and a superblock park (Stewart).
pfft. That's what tunnels are for.

amiller92
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby amiller92 » March 25th, 2017, 11:06 am

Or maybe in the meantime we can just put lanes on the streets that go through.


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Qhaberl
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby Qhaberl » March 25th, 2017, 12:11 pm

I live over at Mill city quarter. It's the apartment building along the north side of second Street, just east of third Avenue. Well leaving the apartment this morning, I noticed that they installed a nice ride bike station right in front of the building.


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SkyScraperKid
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SkyScraperKid » March 25th, 2017, 1:27 pm

amiller92 wrote:
March 25th, 2017, 11:06 am
Or maybe in the meantime we can just put lanes on the streets that go through.


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Or we could not, bring 3 lane roads into 2 lane roads with sections of 1 lane choke spots with 8-10ft. buffers for a 5ft. bike lane in the meantime.

EOst
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby EOst » March 25th, 2017, 2:26 pm

Here's the thing: there will never, ever be money for all those stoplights and tunnels and bridges, in part because any money that did appear would be needed for barrier crossings that don't have alternate routes 650 feet away. So what you're really saying is this:

Image

SkyScraperKid
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SkyScraperKid » March 25th, 2017, 6:34 pm

Have you ever driven or biked down 27th? They have existing stop lights. Low traffic one way intersections don't need stoplights, just ride the midtown greenway end to end to for that proof. And it is tunnel and bridge as in singular. One bridge over the freeway and one potential particle tunnel under the hospital. Or more likely just routing the greenway around, which seems more likely. The ROW exists already in the park and the city parking lot near Hwy 55. It would not be as costly as you imply.

Like I said, an east bike lane and a west bike lane over 1,300 feet apart is pretty silly. Most likely it would result in more people riding the wrong one those bike lanes.

As you can see below it be a very direct route for the greenway even before the freeway bridge and possible tunnel through part of the hospital mega block.

Image

grant1simons2
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby grant1simons2 » March 25th, 2017, 8:02 pm

Hey you know what else is a direct route to the Greenway without disrupting traffic much? 28th.

EOst
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby EOst » March 25th, 2017, 8:53 pm

SkyScraperKid wrote:
March 25th, 2017, 6:34 pm
Have you ever driven or biked down 27th? They have existing stop lights. Low traffic one way intersections don't need stoplights, just ride the midtown greenway end to end to for that proof.
Have you? Only stoplights are at Hennepin and Park. There's a flasher at Chicago. None at Blaisdell, Nicollet, 1st, Portland, Bloomington, and Cedar.

SkyScraperKid
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SkyScraperKid » March 25th, 2017, 10:53 pm

grant1simons2 wrote:
March 25th, 2017, 8:02 pm
Hey you know what else is a direct route to the Greenway without disrupting traffic much? 28th.
but not from the greenway. Which is the problem, geeze.

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sdho
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby sdho » March 25th, 2017, 11:50 pm

SkyScraperKid wrote:
March 24th, 2017, 3:42 pm
Wish we could have just left 26 and 28th for cars and have a bike greenway (with one way traffic for local traffic in limited spots) on 27th. Also any reason why we they are not making it an 8ft bike lane and a 5ft buffer? I been seeing a lot of youtube videos about new bike cycle tracks in urban cities becoming congested.
26th/28th is definitely not a 5' lane. I believe 6 or 7' (remember it's measured from line to curb face, including the gutter).

Anyway, I actually agree that the buffer is excessively wide in proportion. I think they dislike making the main bike lane really wide, because it looks that much more like a potential parking lane. In this case, I don't mind the 8' being striped as buffer. I guess I'd rather the pylons be posted farther to the left, but there's still plenty of room to to overtake slower bicyclists using the buffer.

MNdible
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby MNdible » March 26th, 2017, 1:48 pm

I assume that part of the intent in these layouts is that a driver could squeeze by if the driving lane is blocked by, for example, a car trying to parallel park or any of a million other things that can and do happen.

EOst
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby EOst » March 26th, 2017, 2:15 pm

The large buffer also provides space for cars to pull aside for emergency vehicles.

amiller92
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby amiller92 » March 27th, 2017, 9:08 am

SkyScraperKid wrote:
March 25th, 2017, 6:34 pm
one potential particle tunnel under the hospital.
Is that even possible? Like, how deep are the hospital's basement levels and how would like like digging under them?

mattaudio
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby mattaudio » March 27th, 2017, 9:18 am

I am SO EXCITED for the reduction of four to two lanes on these streets at 35W. This should significantly #slowthecars and make the neighborhood safer.

amiller92
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby amiller92 » March 27th, 2017, 1:05 pm

Speaking of which, I road over 35 on 28th St yesterday and got some extra excercise getting angry at the van that insisted on sharing the right lane with me instead of using any of the unoccupied lanes to his left (only 3 lanes on the bridge I think, btw).

SkyScraperKid
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SkyScraperKid » March 27th, 2017, 2:09 pm

amiller92 wrote:
March 27th, 2017, 9:08 am
SkyScraperKid wrote:
March 25th, 2017, 6:34 pm
one potential particle tunnel under the hospital.
Is that even possible? Like, how deep are the hospital's basement levels and how would like like digging under them?
From the West side you can see there is already a pathway that could be converted

https://goo.gl/maps/4yjZymznfJK2

And on the east side you can see it's only a 2 story section of the building and there is already the central (car traffic) space that would have to be reconfigured. Perhaps even a 1st floor conversion to an outdoor pathway would be more cost efficient.

https://goo.gl/maps/tsxLX1okyWU2

*don't forget to pan around 180 degrees to the other side so you can see where they would connect*

no doubt it would take some investment, however if the hospital was willing to reallocate that existing car lane space into a potential greenway then they would become directly connected to a greenway that would greatly benefit employees by having a new bike friendly route to work.

Granted the midtown greenway is also really close, so perhaps it's value is not as sizeable enough to be enough interest. Still with so many hospitals being so friendly to bikes and willing to invest in them such as Nice Ride. Makes me wonder how they would react to such a proposal. Would they embrace the idea, or discourage it and preserve the car pathways?

mattaudio
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby mattaudio » March 27th, 2017, 2:20 pm

Why would we pursue such a complex and expensive proposition, when 26th/28th bike lanes can do the same thing with the added benefit of traffic calming those streets to appropriate speeds and scales?

SkyScraperKid
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby SkyScraperKid » March 27th, 2017, 5:26 pm

mattaudio wrote:
March 27th, 2017, 2:20 pm
Why would we pursue such a complex and expensive proposition, when 26th/28th bike lanes can do the same thing with the added benefit of traffic calming those streets to appropriate speeds and scales?
Why would we place an east bike lane 1,300 ft. away from the west bound lane? Although if you think a 8-10ft. buffer space that will never have an functional usage is a positive thing then I guess you just won't get it.

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sdho
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Re: Bicycle Infrastructure

Postby sdho » March 27th, 2017, 9:32 pm

SkyScraperKid wrote:
March 27th, 2017, 5:26 pm
Why would we place an east bike lane 1,300 ft. away from the west bound lane? Although if you think a 8-10ft. buffer space that will never have an functional usage is a positive thing then I guess you just won't get it.
If that's really a priority, they could do a 2-way facility on 26th. I prefer the one-way facilities, which safely allow you to ride a bike at full speed. You could convert it to a state-of-the-art curbed facility and still cost way less than doing something on 27th.


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