Twin Cities Future Transit Map

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mplsjaromir
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby mplsjaromir » December 4th, 2012, 9:09 am

A streetcar all the way to 93rd Ave in Blaine would be quite the sight to see.

MNdible
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby MNdible » December 4th, 2012, 9:43 am

I wasn't clear if the map intended the grey lines to represent streetcar service, or just major streets for orientation.

If they're supposed to be streetcar lines (as suggested by the fact that Nicollet bends towards 46th, unlabeled), I think the Nicollet line should visually connect to the Central line through downtown. At this point, this seems to be the most likely starter line, so we should get that right. Likewise, the Hennepin line is unlikely to extend to Central as shown, and more likely to bend to University.

Anyway, those are minor quibbles. Visually, it's very well done!

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby mattaudio » December 4th, 2012, 9:47 am

Curious how you made this? What program?

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » December 4th, 2012, 7:02 pm

Thanks for the great feedback. I'm hoping to release the map under a creative commons license, so it will be free to use and modify.


The grey lines do indeed represent street car routes. I should have made it clear from the start. I will be tweaking these for the coming updates.
mplsjaromir wrote:A streetcar all the way to 93rd Ave in Blaine would be quite the sight to see.
I was reading an article in Minnpost the other day about how the Blaine-Anoka airport could one day become our version of the Midway airport. I thought it would be good to see a rail service extending all the way there to serve an increasingly popular gateway.
MNdible wrote: Likewise, the Hennepin line is unlikely to extend to Central as shown, and more likely to bend to University.
Point taken. I can also see the Hennepin line ending in a three-block long loop along the 1st Avenue.
mattaudio wrote:I'll try to find the files! I like what you've done.
Would you mind sharing your map here? I would love to incorporate some of your data.
helsinki wrote:

What happened to the SW LRT 21st Street Station? Is Kenwood the new Georgetown (illogical rejection of transit by the affluent); or has there been some other change?

Also, what is the grey line heading west from the interchange? And where is Northstar?

helsinki wrote:

What happened to the SW LRT 21st Street Station? Is Kenwood the new Georgetown (illogical rejection of transit by the affluent); or has there been some other change?
I accidentally erased it in the process of moving points. oops
helsinki wrote:
Also, what is the grey line heading west from the interchange? And where is Northstar?
The grey line will eventually become the I-394 BRT.

As to the Northstar (and the rest of the commuter and HSR lines), we will limit those to show just the transfer points.
DaPerpKazoo wrote: A couple quibbles-- why include the Orange Line BRT and not Red?
I plan to include the Red line there, as well. Currently it falls outside the boundaries of the map, so it may end up in a separate inset.
mattaudio wrote: What program?
Illustrator.
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » December 4th, 2012, 7:51 pm

Are there any BRT lines currently proposed for the East Metro? Gateway corridor?
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby eluko » December 4th, 2012, 8:06 pm

I draw fantasy maps quite a bit but they never look this nice. Very well made! I also like the fact that you kept it within the realm of possibility.
The St. Paul side could use some attention though. Streetcars down Rice, Robert, Grand, and Payne Ave have been discussed for potential routes in the past.
And an LRT to White Bear from Mpls would be a great addition to the network I think.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby twincitizen » December 4th, 2012, 9:10 pm

Leave 21st St Station off, we need to start a movement!

Gateway Corridor has identified station areas, at least to the level of detail you'd need for this map. I assume Gateway will do some kind of Marq2-esque operation on rebuilt 5th & 6th Streets in Downtown St. Paul, rather than just terminate at Union Depot as they suggest. Would you show it as running "Express" on 94 between the downtowns? They have suggested that it will be through-routed to Minneapolis, in the assumed absence of Red Rock or any other high-speed connections between the 'towns.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » December 5th, 2012, 12:51 am

Something like this

Image
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » December 5th, 2012, 1:21 am

eluko wrote: Streetcars down Rice, Robert, Grand, and Payne Ave have been discussed for potential routes in the past.
These sound interesting.

Robert - would it cross over to West St. Paul. And where would it terminate?



eluko wrote: And an LRT to White Bear from Mpls would be a great addition to the network I think.
Cool. I have questions regarding alignment for you -- as soon as I can formulate them, that is.
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby MNdible » December 5th, 2012, 10:18 am

I think it would be good to not clutter up the map with too many "could be" transit lines. There are plenty of fantasy transit lines on this board for that. I think it would be more useful to see this be a map of what we could reasonably expect to be operational in the next 10 years.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby eluko » December 5th, 2012, 12:50 pm

Visualizer wrote: Robert - would it cross over to West St. Paul. And where would it terminate?
Yes. The Robert St Corridor is already under study to be a future transit route but the mode isn't yet decided.
A BRT down 52 ending in Inver Grove with a streetcar down Robert ending at the county service center would be ideal.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby twincitizen » December 5th, 2012, 3:57 pm

MNdible wrote:I think it would be good to not clutter up the map with too many "could be" transit lines. There are plenty of fantasy transit lines on this board for that. I think it would be more useful to see this be a map of what we could reasonably expect to be operational in the next 10 years.
I agree.

Not that we're in any position to tell you what to do :D

It would be nice to see a 2022 (just to be safe) operational map of what we have now + Southwest, Bottineau, Gateway, Orange Line, Red Line, and the rapid bus network (aka arterial BRT). Basically everything that already has the blessing of Met Council and CTIB could realistically afford to build (even with the potential sales tax increase)

Everything beyond that is pure fantasy and probably belongs on a different version of the map.

For the sake of your map, you wouldn't necessarily have to distinguish between streetcars or rapid bus. They're roughly all the same lines.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby bptenor » December 5th, 2012, 4:18 pm

Although it doesn't belong on this map (yet), I really hope the Rush Line gets some more attention soon. LRT from Union Depot to White Bear Lake should experience decent ridership, and it would fill a void in this current METRO/fixed-route transit network.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » December 6th, 2012, 2:12 pm

I'm dropping all streetcar routes in favor of BRT for now. This list is open to debate:

Light Rail
Green (Central)
Green (Southwest)
Blue (Hiawatha)
Blue (Bottineau)

Possible for inclusion:

White Bear Lake LRT (Union to WBL Transit Station)

BRT
Orange (I-35W)
Red

Possible for inclusion:

I-394 (Purple)
Gateway (Pink)

'Arterial BRT'

American (MOA to Southwest Transit Station)

Central
Chicago
Hennepin
Lake
Nicollet
West Broadway (Park Avenue to Robbinsdale)

Robert (14th St. to Livingston)
Snelling (46th St. Station to Rosedale Shooping Center)
West 7th (Union to MOA)
East 7th (Union to Maplewood)


Commuter Rail
Northstar
Rush Line

Long-Distance Commuter Rail

Amtrack Union Depot
Last edited by Visualizer on December 6th, 2012, 3:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » December 6th, 2012, 2:34 pm

bptenor wrote:Although it doesn't belong on this map (yet), I really hope the Rush Line gets some more attention soon. LRT from Union Depot to White Bear Lake should experience decent ridership, and it would fill a void in this current METRO/fixed-route transit network.
I'm interested in including both lines on the map. I would like to see more concrete ideas for the White Bear Lake LRT though.
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » December 6th, 2012, 2:38 pm

twincitizen wrote:
MNdible wrote:I think it would be good to not clutter up the map with too many "could be" transit lines. There are plenty of fantasy transit lines on this board for that. I think it would be more useful to see this be a map of what we could reasonably expect to be operational in the next 10 years.
I agree.

Not that we're in any position to tell you what to do :D

It would be nice to see a 2022 (just to be safe) operational map of what we have now + Southwest, Bottineau, Gateway, Orange Line, Red Line, and the rapid bus network (aka arterial BRT). Basically everything that already has the blessing of Met Council and CTIB could realistically afford to build (even with the potential sales tax increase)

Everything beyond that is pure fantasy and probably belongs on a different version of the map.

For the sake of your map, you wouldn't necessarily have to distinguish between streetcars or rapid bus. They're roughly all the same lines.
Since Orange Line and Red Lines are also BRT, how do you propose we distinguish between those and the 'Arterial BRT' ?
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby woofner » December 6th, 2012, 3:21 pm

Visualizer wrote: I would like to see more concrete ideas for the White Bear Lake LRT though.
Chapter 7 of the Rush Line AA had a pretty detailed map of the LRT alternative assumed for the purposes of that document. I don't see many places where it would be likely to change - probably the most likely would be getting closer to the mall, or more distant possibility would be running it down E 7th west of Earl.

Addendum: If I remember right, the Rush Line got a better CEI than Bottineau, although obviously it's not in Hennepin County so there's a lot less momentum behind it.
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » December 6th, 2012, 3:34 pm

redisciple wrote:
Visualizer wrote: I would like to see more concrete ideas for the White Bear Lake LRT though.
Chapter 7 of the Rush Line AA had a pretty detailed map of the LRT alternative assumed for the purposes of that document.
Thanks for that! I will study the report.
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » December 7th, 2012, 2:06 pm

Quick update

Image

Image
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby FISHMANPET » December 7th, 2012, 5:57 pm

I'm confused, what is the brown line?


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