Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Tcmetro » September 21st, 2017, 2:30 pm

IMO Gold line and Purple line are wasting money in areas where transit priority isnt needed. Those lines are at least radial and connect a major destination on one end.

2 and 21 are successful because they connect commerical corridors and have high density housing.

30, 32, 46 all connect lower density places with limited destinations. Broadway crosstown service didn't exist for a few decades because demand was so minimal.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby RailBaronYarr » September 21st, 2017, 3:21 pm

We materialized thousands of extra riders a day in the Green Line, the A Line, and I'm sure it'll happen with other similarly urban route improvements. I'm not denying that current demand is low (though the 32 does sport 1,700 riders a day - just under half of what the 84 had prior to the aBRT treatment), but we're talking about pennies on the dollar compared to other investments. I'm not saying we're gonna see 10,000 rides a day on GV Road/Broadway. I know I'm off in the wilderness here. But waiting 30 minutes for a bus that runs crosstown within my own (small) city borders and doesn't have shelters or whatever is why people drive (or why they take taxis to get to grocery stores). It's **partly** why there's less appetite for development along those corridors.

I also think we under-value the existing destinations. Mid-City Industrial (not including the Quarry) has over 12,000 jobs. A 4-block wide corridor from Mid-City to Theo Wirth (but not including Mid-City) along Broadway/GVR has 8,500 jobs in it, while the same sized strip from Lake Calhoun to Midtown (including the Target/etc to the east of Hiawatha) has 14k jobs. Hell, ALL of Southdale (from 66th to Minnesota Drive, York to a N-S line roughly at Valley View) has just 12k jobs - the same as Mid City! Our perceptions of these places depend heavily on our biases. One could easily make the case that terminating a N/NE crosstown line at, say, General Mills HQ on one end and Midway at the other would add some significant pull to riders. There's not THAT MUCH separating a Broadway from a Lake St, or a 38th St from a Franklin Ave, but the difference in transit options available to people drive behavior (and, in a sense, justify the lack of zoning for anything more than what we have in/near those lower density corridors).

I want our city to take advantage of all the still relatively cheap land across broad swaths of N/NE/S, even SW Minneapolis for "missing middle" housing with 1 or even no parking spaces. But unless you work downtown, dropping 1 or 2 family cars isn't really an option for those locations. I don't think it'd take much in terms of added density in those areas (be it new housing or families re-populating empty houses) to support a bit more commercial usage along those corridors, either. And it shouldn't take much! We could actually aBRT-ify many of these corridors for even cheaper than the fully-blown projects by just consolidating stops, building some better shelters, committing to fare collection and fare inspector costs, and running existing route buses more frequently (cutting down on bus purchase req's). And if the city cared about making it as easy to get around town by bus as it does by car (seriously, we spend over a hundred million of local dollars a year on road capital/operating budget), we could afford to pay MT to do it.

tl;dr, reasonable people can disagree. I just think these corridors have more value than whatever metrics our transportation planners use to justify a system with like 2% regional and 8% city-wide mode share.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby mamundsen » September 21st, 2017, 3:41 pm

Reading the decisions from Feb 2017, it did say that the plan is for the LPA to be the Streetcar. That's a plus.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby BigIdeasGuy » September 22nd, 2017, 4:46 pm

What is the reasoning behind ending the West Broadway Streetcar at North Memorial instead of going all the way to the Robbinsdale Transit Center?

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