Twin Cities Future Transit Map

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kellonathan
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby kellonathan » November 3rd, 2014, 11:22 am

As always, I like it a lot! It really highlights how much attention (or lack thereof) we're giving to East-West routes. (#2 Franklin Ave is not a core route?!)

Just a quick typo nit-picking: "Emerson & Freemont" should probably read "Emerson & Fremont"
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » November 3rd, 2014, 2:05 pm

Fixed, thanks!

Here's a preview of the entire network (On the St. Paul side, Gateway line and Robert St BRT are planned). Thick lines indicate frequent routes (major bus routes and arterial brt), while thinner lines are less frequent local bus routes. The color is not final: individual lines will be color-coded based on service type.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » November 3rd, 2014, 2:38 pm

kellonathan wrote:AIt really highlights how much attention (or lack thereof) we're giving to East-West routes.

My guess is the transit simply follows existing development patterns. Urban patterns shape travel patterns. If you overlayed an old streetcar map and Metro Transit's system map on top of each other, you would see that dense areas with a lot of service today already had a lot of service 60 years ago. Urban development tended to congregate close to the streetcar lines. Bus lines, on the other hand, seemed to have little such impact.
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby EOst » November 3rd, 2014, 6:48 pm

Living between the two, there's an order of magnitude of difference between how frequent the 18 is and how frequent the 11 is. Does it really count as a frequent route of the same thickness as the Hi Frequency routes?

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » November 3rd, 2014, 8:06 pm

A route needs to run every 15 minutes or less (6am to 10pm) to qualify as "hi-frequency route". So, in that sense, the 18 (every 7.5 minutes) and 11 (every 15 minutes) would be treated the same. However, I'm open to suggestions.
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Tcmetro » November 3rd, 2014, 10:24 pm

A few things I noticed missing from the latest draft of your map:

- Gateway BRT line
- Rt 30 meanders through Lauderdale down to the Raymond Ave Green Line Stn
- 3B Energy Park-Front St branch is missing
- 6̶8̶ ̶n̶o̶r̶t̶h̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶D̶o̶w̶n̶t̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶S̶t̶.̶ ̶P̶a̶u̶l̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶L̶a̶r̶p̶e̶n̶t̶e̶u̶r̶/̶R̶i̶c̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶e̶t̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶3̶0̶ ̶m̶i̶n̶ ̶c̶r̶i̶t̶e̶r̶i̶a̶,̶ ̶I̶I̶R̶C̶.̶ Hourly nights and Sundays...
- 62 meets 30 min criteria between Downtown St Paul and Rice/36 and is proposed to offer HFN service between DTSTP and Rice/Larpenteur in the future.
- 12 is probably removable. The plan is to replace the 12 with routes 612, 615, 21, and 6 after the introduction of SWLRT service.
- The trunk portion of route 14 is planned to reach HFN standards. Route 30 is planned to take over the 14 services on Golden Valley Rd. Additionally, Rt 17 pretty much meets the HFN standards between DT Mpls and West Lake station, and is planned to extend all trips up to 27th and Washington.
- Trunk portion of 23 planned to meet HFN standards.
- It's probably safe to include the 84 local with the thin line. 84 is proposed to operate half-hourly between Rosedale and Sibley Plaza and use all the streets that the 84 currently serves but the A Line wont.
- 16 local service also meets the criteria for inclusion.


- If you do plan on extending the map to include suburban services, a lot of them will qualify for the 30 min inculsion with the SIP. This includes routes 300, 301, 540, 542, 601, 602, 604, 605, 612, 615, 643, 675, 721, 722, and 724. There are a whole slew of other suburban lines that will meet the 30 minute criteria on weekdays but not on weekends.

Haha, don't mean to nitpick so much, but just want to make sure you have all the correct information from the plans. ;)

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby froggie » November 4th, 2014, 7:12 am

I would hold off on including Gateway BRT for the simple fact that a routing has not been determined yet. Still up in the air whether it will follow East 7th or I-94 east of Mounds Blvd.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » November 4th, 2014, 8:10 pm

Seems strange that the 62 gets priority over the 68. Isn't ridership higher on the 68?
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Tcmetro » November 4th, 2014, 9:29 pm

Rice (62) seems to be a stronger corridor than Jackson (68) in the north, whereas Robert (68) is stronger than Smith (62) in the south. Really this is begging for the branches to be switched, for a frequent (10-15 min) Rice-Robert line and a less frequent (20-30 min) Jackson-Smith line.

What's complicating matters on Rice St is the presence of the 3. What needs to happen is a vast restructure of St. Paul bus services on the East Side to a more grid structure. This isn't really the right topic to write this, but here goes anyways.

3: Route 3A would be combined into new Route 33, 3B would extend along Maryland and White Bear to Larpenteur/White Bear. Every 15 minutes daily.

33: New Elm-Kasota-Energy Park-Front route, replacing 3A. Every 15 min peak, 30 min off peak.

54: Extend to Maplewood Mall via 7th, Arcade, Maryland, White Bear. Every 15 min daily.

61: Eliminate between DT St. Paul and Maryland/Arcade (replaced by 54). Every 15 min peak, 30 min off peak.

62: Jackson-Smith bus. Every 20 min daytime, 30 min evening.

64: Payne-Edgerton-Little Canada Rd bus. Replace service to Maryland, White Bear, N St Paul, and English St with 3, 54, 66, and 80. Every 15 min peak, 20 min daytime, 30 min evening.

66: New Pacific-Earl-Maryland-Prosperity-Larpenteur-English-Gervais-White Bear-Maplewood Mall bus. Every 30 min daily.

68: Rice-Robert bus. 10 min peak, 15 min midday/Sat, 20 min evening/Sun.

71: Mississippi-Westminster-CR B/36 bus. Every 20 min weekday/Sat, 30 min evening/Sun.

80: Divert to N St Paul via 64N routing. 30 min daily.

63, 70, 74: more or less the same, maybe better frequencies.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Vagueperson » November 4th, 2014, 10:33 pm

The 61 bus is planned to be eliminated between DT and Maryland, being replaced by the "east 7th" aBRT.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but are you suggesting no bus service on Payne Ave? One of the most walkable business areas on the East Side?

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » November 4th, 2014, 11:55 pm

St. Paul routes tend to meander a lot. Straight lines are "user friendly" but then you have to rely more on transfers.
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Tcmetro » November 4th, 2014, 11:59 pm

Vagueperson wrote:The 61 bus is planned to be eliminated between DT and Maryland, being replaced by the "east 7th" aBRT.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but are you suggesting no bus service on Payne Ave? One of the most walkable business areas on the East Side?
64 would keep going down Payne, the 3 would go down Maryland as a crosstown service.

Made a quick map, disregard things like service frequencies. Some minor route branches aren't included either.

http://app.transitmix.net/map/46713

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Vagueperson » November 5th, 2014, 6:55 am

The E 7th St aBRT will largely over the old 64 route, but go up Arcade instead of Payne. On the East Side, Payne is probably the most walkable urban environment and White Bear Ave is probably the longest active commercial stretch. Currently the 64 meanders a bit but offers to bring a lot of people to White Bear Ave and Payne Ave for jobs and services, as well as downtown and Maplewood.

I like the look of the grid, but it seems like having a Payne-Edgerton-Little Canada bus minimizes the direct access to this important node. I suppose I wish that the aBRT would go down Payne instead of Arcade to favor utility over ease and then retain a local service bus on that street, as well. I really like the Maryland Como bus idea. I could have been using that for years.

On the west end of town there don't seem to be any north-south routes. Obviously there will be a Snelling aBRT. Why were other N-S routes left off?

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Tcmetro » November 5th, 2014, 7:28 am

I just put the Eastside routes on there, MT restructured everything else with the Green Line.

I'd imagine the reasoning behind putting the E 7th aBRT up Arcade relates to serving Metro State U, 7th St commercial district, which is home to the Mexican Consulate, and the redevelopment site at the Brewery. It's a difficult choice between the two routes, but there are more important destinations on 7th that can be served if the bus turns at Arcade.

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » November 6th, 2014, 12:20 pm

In the spirit of sharing, here is the source PDF/Ai file I'm working on: http://goo.gl/Te7VCo

Feel free to edit the file or add new lines at your own discretion. I will incorporate your changes into the main document as I go. Cheers

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Last edited by Visualizer on November 6th, 2014, 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby PhilmerPhil » November 6th, 2014, 3:18 pm

These maps are all so beautiful. Are we ever going to see Metro Transit using them in an official capacity?

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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » November 8th, 2014, 1:30 am

Thanks, Phil. What MT needs is a complete wayfinding overhaul, not just a new network map.
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby kellonathan » November 12th, 2014, 1:48 am

Visualizer wrote:Thanks, Phil. What MT needs is a complete wayfinding overhaul, not just a new network map.
Absolutely agreed. BTW, if you haven't, check out San Francisco's new Muni map redesign project. http://sf.streetsblog.org/wp-content/up ... ni-Map.jpg (large file warning) Compared to the current map, it's going to be a huge improvement.

And again, I'll be that nitpicky guy---"Capital/Rice St." should read "Capitol/Rice St." (Capitol for the building, Capital for the city.)
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » November 13th, 2014, 2:25 pm

Here's a link to the original article on the SF Streets blog: http://sf.streetsblog.org/2014/10/29/be ... -muni-map/

It's an interesting read.
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby Visualizer » December 15th, 2014, 3:24 pm

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