Twin Cities Future Transit Map

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mattaudio
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby mattaudio » December 26th, 2017, 12:06 pm

alexschief wrote:
December 22nd, 2017, 9:30 am
The only new ideas are the new Gold Line, the connection of Midtown to Ford
And it's not the first time a Riverview-Midtown through-route has been discussed on the forums. Great ideas that keep coming up.

alexschief
Metrodome
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby alexschief » December 26th, 2017, 12:40 pm

mattaudio wrote:
December 26th, 2017, 12:06 pm
alexschief wrote:
December 22nd, 2017, 9:30 am
The only new ideas are the new Gold Line, the connection of Midtown to Ford
And it's not the first time a Riverview-Midtown through-route has been discussed on the forums. Great ideas that keep coming up.
Yes, you're right of course, I meant "new" as in "not formally proposed or studied."
dingo wrote:
December 26th, 2017, 10:59 am
Like the idea of the gold line if it could be more of an express than the current Green Line. Limit number of stops, to get people from Minneapolis to St Paul faster.
Should just give better visibility to the 94, which will always the best way to go straight from downtown to downtown.

EOst
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby EOst » December 26th, 2017, 2:00 pm

If/when 94 between the downtowns gets MnPASS lanes, it seems like a no-brainer to replace Route 94 with an extension of the Gold Line (Gateway BRT). Would greatly increase the prominence of the 94 service, and it would probably boost Gold Line ridership from the East Side significantly.

mattaudio
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby mattaudio » December 26th, 2017, 3:46 pm

I'm guessing there's far more demand for downtown-to-downtown than for the Gold Line itself. So why not through-route a few St. Paul BRT services to Minneapolis? For example, Gold Line, Rush Line, and maybe Red Rock if that ever becomes BRT. All of those services could enter DT St. Paul and proceed along a common route to DT Minneapolis. Come up with some sort of label add-on for this downtown connector service. It would also likely increase ridership of these past-St.Paul BRT services if riders could have a one-seat ride to/from Minneapolis.

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby BigIdeasGuy » December 26th, 2017, 8:09 pm

One of the ideas I've been kicking around in my head for awhile is an express LRT line between the DT's. I think the best way to accomplish that would be to run in a dedicated lane down the center of 94. On the STP end you use the tracks between Union Depot and the X that will be already be there because of Riverview. And on the MPLS side you link into the Blue Line tracks around Cedar-Riverside. Add in stops at Snelling and somewhere around the U.

Obviously it could be challenging to lose a lane in both directions on 94 but if you could have LRT passing cars at 55-65 MPH in the middle of rush hour it wouldn't be hard to convince people to ride it. There would be capacity issues in each DT's but that's going to be an issue with any expansion of rail in either DT

gopherfan
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby gopherfan » December 26th, 2017, 11:19 pm

BigIdeasGuy wrote: One of the ideas I've been kicking around in my head for awhile is an express LRT line between the DT's.
Umm, you know the Green Line was originally planned to be this, but the neighborhoods didn't want something else to divide communities like 94, and the Met Council wanted development, so a 94 route was scrapped for University...

DanPatchToget
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby DanPatchToget » December 27th, 2017, 9:12 am

How about monorail or maglev? Wouldn't take up any land (besides pillars and stations) and it could operate even faster than rail on 94. Besides the two downtowns have one stop somewhere near the U of M and one at Snelling.

Of course I would be satisfied with the existing Route 94, Green Line, and numerous regional rail routes operating as a S-Bahn system connecting the two downtowns and branching off outside the urban core.

MattW
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby MattW » December 27th, 2017, 12:27 pm

DanPatchToget wrote:
December 27th, 2017, 9:12 am
How about monorail or maglev? Wouldn't take up any land (besides pillars and stations) and it could operate even faster than rail on 94. Besides the two downtowns have one stop somewhere near the U of M and one at Snelling.

Of course I would be satisfied with the existing Route 94, Green Line, and numerous regional rail routes operating as a S-Bahn system connecting the two downtowns and branching off outside the urban core.
Maglev? I mean, that would be awesome. Unless we're playing Sim City, completely unrealistic.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby DanPatchToget » December 27th, 2017, 12:55 pm

MattW wrote:
December 27th, 2017, 12:27 pm
DanPatchToget wrote:
December 27th, 2017, 9:12 am
How about monorail or maglev? Wouldn't take up any land (besides pillars and stations) and it could operate even faster than rail on 94. Besides the two downtowns have one stop somewhere near the U of M and one at Snelling.

Of course I would be satisfied with the existing Route 94, Green Line, and numerous regional rail routes operating as a S-Bahn system connecting the two downtowns and branching off outside the urban core.
Maglev? I mean, that would be awesome. Unless we're playing Sim City, completely unrealistic.
With that viewpoint we wouldn't even have Interstate 94 (for better or worse).

BoredAgain
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby BoredAgain » December 27th, 2017, 3:44 pm

gopherfan wrote:
December 26th, 2017, 11:19 pm
BigIdeasGuy wrote: One of the ideas I've been kicking around in my head for awhile is an express LRT line between the DT's.
Umm, you know the Green Line was originally planned to be this, but the neighborhoods didn't want something else to divide communities like 94, and the Met Council wanted development, so a 94 route was scrapped for University...
The green line (formerly central line) planning process choice to prioritize neighborhood service and development along University does not negate the strong desire for faster, better, direct intercity rail transport. Many have argued that it should have been a "Both/And" situation instead of an "Either/Or". I think they made the correct choice if we are limited to one option, but we don't need to be limited in a "Fantasy Map" scenario.

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby BigIdeasGuy » December 27th, 2017, 6:39 pm

1. I am aware of the community wanted in University but as BoredAgain said it didn't have to be an "either/or" it could have been a "both/and". You could make a case that adding an express dedicated right of way service between the DT's along 94 and along with adding or relocating Green Line stations would do more to serve the community.

2. I wasn't trying to downplay the loss of a driving lane on 94 it's a real issue but I also think it would remove a large number of cars, and buses for that matter, from the interstate.

3. It's a fantasy idea, like most listed in the thread.

tmart
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby tmart » December 28th, 2017, 1:30 pm

One thought I've had, in the realm of fantasy-but-still-plausible, is that the urban segments of both 35W and 94 would be great candidates for median-running LRT, with freeway lids surrounding the stations. We have a huge logistical advantage over something like the Big Dig in that our urban highways are already below-grade. You could use development rights on the lids to avoid the stations-in-the-middle-of-nowhere problem common to freeway transit, as well as reconnect neighborhoods and partially finance the project. It's basically (a) a subway without any digging, (b) a way to heal the scars of the urban highway projects, and (c) a way to create new land in our most valuable areas.

The 94 project could connect the downtowns in 15 minutes instead of 40, with access to, and huge nontransit benefits for, important and under-served areas like Rondo, Hamline, Seward, Convention Center, and even Loring if it looped around downtown. 35W could finally give some sort of permanent transit to South as well as serving our busiest commuter corridor with an appropriate capacity.

Apparently MnDOT has at least considered a similar concept relatively recently: https://urbanland.uli.org/industry-sect ... velopment/

xandrex
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Re: Twin Cities Future Transit Map

Postby xandrex » December 28th, 2017, 2:56 pm

You could probably do this cheaper (but with most of the benefits) by having MnPASS lanes added on 94 similar to 35W and then build the land bridges with improved stations in the center. Cheaper than putting down rail, but still connecting the downtowns.


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