B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5832
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby MNdible » October 25th, 2019, 1:52 pm

tmart wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 1:25 pm
I imagine B Line buses will just pass the 21 buses at stops, so bunching shouldn't be that big of a problem.
I don't think that's going to be nearly as simple as you make it sound, especially since most bus stops will probably be reconfigured so they're stopping in a traffic lane.

talindsay
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1560
Joined: September 29th, 2012, 10:41 am

Re: B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby talindsay » October 25th, 2019, 1:56 pm

CalMcKenney wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 12:32 pm
Can someone remind me, so the main benefits on travel times from this type of BRT is that it will have fewer stops along it's route, higher frequency and signal priority correct? Or are they considering the red painted bus only lanes during some parts of the day like we see on Hennepin and Chicago as well?
Also offboard fare payment, which will make a significant difference on this line.

User avatar
kellonathan
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 160
Joined: July 8th, 2012, 12:25 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby kellonathan » October 25th, 2019, 9:31 pm

I am also betting on this service becoming a very successful route. No doubt. Regarding the ridership mismatch between west and east of Hiawatha Ave, we should probably revisit the Midtown Corridor Streetcar/LRT soon, ideally along with the implementation of B Line. Guess we just need more people to champion that effort.
Jonathan Ahn, AICP | hello@jonathanahn.com
Drawing lines on maps and dreaming really hard for living.

Tcmetro
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1354
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 8:02 pm
Location: Chicago (ex-Minneapolitan)

Re: B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby Tcmetro » October 25th, 2019, 10:08 pm

Extra trips to the B Line should be added between Hennepin and Minnehaha for a 5-min service frequency. The 21 used to have 6-8 min frequency during the daytime, but this has been cut back to 10 min now.

I wonder if the B Line could be considered an acceptable replacement for the 53 bus also.

DanPatchToget
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 667
Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm

Re: B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby DanPatchToget » October 26th, 2019, 10:00 am

This is a little old but it shows Route 53 being replaced. https://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites ... s/lake.pdf

That conflicts with the Service Improvement Plan, which proposed Route 53 operating in both directions during rush hour.

Silophant
Moderator
Posts: 3836
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Location: The Gateway

Re: B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby Silophant » October 26th, 2019, 10:21 am

Now that it covers the same corridor, there's no way the B Line wouldn't replace the Rt 53, in the same way the Green Line replaced the Rt 50 upon opening. I suspect the SIP either wasn't taking the B Line into account at all, or if it was, was planning for its originally studied termination at Snelling/University.

As far as the extra trips between Uptown and Minnehaha, the E Line planner told the advisory committee a few times that Metro Transit won't do short runs or branches on the BRT lines, for service legibility reasons, which I agree with. I suppose that doesn't prevent an L Line or something that just overlays a section of the B Line, or extends further into SLP like someone mentioned above.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7941
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby mattaudio » October 26th, 2019, 7:08 pm

This is so good. My only qualm with the preferred alternative map is that it doesn't show a future connection with the C Line at Cedar.

Oreos&Milk
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 133
Joined: February 11th, 2018, 11:51 am

Re: B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby Oreos&Milk » October 27th, 2019, 2:41 pm

kellonathan wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 9:31 pm
I am also betting on this service becoming a very successful route. No doubt. Regarding the ridership mismatch between west and east of Hiawatha Ave, we should probably revisit the Midtown Corridor Streetcar/LRT soon, ideally along with the implementation of B Line. Guess we just need more people to champion that effort.
Hope so, its starting to be a dream of mine to be able to take a train from Uptown to Downtown to Westend. That area is reveloping faster than we have a plan for mass transit for it. I remember it being on the 169 proposed BRT line years ago. However maybe the B line could branch out that way after downtown stops hop on 394 to 3 stops on Park Place BLVD and go back downtown again and down to Uptown.

Not sure why they want to extend it to a place where we already have transit options. I would ride the bus to west end more if I knew It was a major BRT station that had frequent service there at least ever 20-40 min.

mamundsen
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1112
Joined: November 15th, 2012, 10:01 am

Re: B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby mamundsen » October 27th, 2019, 8:51 pm

Oreos&Milk wrote:
October 27th, 2019, 2:41 pm
kellonathan wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 9:31 pm
I am also betting on this service becoming a very successful route. No doubt. Regarding the ridership mismatch between west and east of Hiawatha Ave, we should probably revisit the Midtown Corridor Streetcar/LRT soon, ideally along with the implementation of B Line. Guess we just need more people to champion that effort.
Hope so, its starting to be a dream of mine to be able to take a train from Uptown to Downtown to Westend. That area is reveloping faster than we have a plan for mass transit for it. I remember it being on the 169 proposed BRT line years ago. However maybe the B line could branch out that way after downtown stops hop on 394 to 3 stops on Park Place BLVD and go back downtown again and down to Uptown.

Not sure why they want to extend it to a place where we already have transit options. I would ride the bus to west end more if I knew It was a major BRT station that had frequent service there at least ever 20-40 min.
B Line will not go downtown Minneapolis.

User avatar
Anondson
IDS Center
Posts: 4056
Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby Anondson » October 27th, 2019, 9:21 pm

Oreos&Milk wrote:I would ride the bus to west end more if I knew It was a major BRT station that had frequent service there at least ever 20-40 min.
While the B will not get close to downtown Minneapolis, the 9 does have pretty frequent service between West End and downtown Minneapolis. And I think a couple express lines hit there too for faster HOV lane more direct runs, like the 645.

tmart
Union Depot
Posts: 349
Joined: October 6th, 2017, 10:05 am
Location: Expat

Re: B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby tmart » October 28th, 2019, 9:35 am

mattaudio wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 7:08 pm
This is so good. My only qualm with the preferred alternative map is that it doesn't show a future connection with the C Line at Cedar.
I had the same thought that the C Line was missing, and in my head there was a C Line extension planned that would run south of Downtown, but looking around now I haven't been able to find any evidence that one exists or ever did.

Oreos&Milk
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 133
Joined: February 11th, 2018, 11:51 am

Re: B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby Oreos&Milk » October 28th, 2019, 10:17 am

Sorry I was thinking of the E line, that line down Hennepin should connect to westend. I guess B line is going to be extended to St. Paul downtown.

https://metrocouncil.org/Council-Meetin ... pdate.aspx

I like that Idea, I don't love the jog in it to the Midway stadium. However it does seem necessary given it is going to be such a massive hub in years to come. Also I wonder if using Grand Ave. or just completely following the Ayd Mill Rd into 7th and then downtown St. Paul is an option. I don't live in the area, however with so much buzz on the Midtown Greenway if we have a bike trail down Ayd Mill Road and a BRT line wouldn't that help spark the development buzz we have along the Minneapolis corridor side? I think it would be worth looking into more at least. Would love to see Ayd Mill Rd turned into development corridor with 6+ floor buildings and large amounts of retail that extend along the entire corridor and connects to the Midway Greenway too. Exciting times and exciting possibilities.

mamundsen
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1112
Joined: November 15th, 2012, 10:01 am

Re: B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

Postby mamundsen » October 28th, 2019, 10:29 am

Oreos&Milk wrote:
October 28th, 2019, 10:17 am
Sorry I was thinking of the E line, that line down Hennepin should connect to westend. I guess B line is going to be extended to St. Paul downtown.

https://metrocouncil.org/Council-Meetin ... pdate.aspx

I like that Idea, I don't love the jog in it to the Midway stadium. However it does seem necessary given it is going to be such a massive hub in years to come.
You're not looking at the map correctly. They are NOT doing the jog north to University in the recommended route. Look at slide 4 for the route.
Oreos&Milk wrote:
October 28th, 2019, 10:17 am
Also I wonder if using Grand Ave. or just completely following the Ayd Mill Rd into 7th and then downtown St. Paul is an option. I don't live in the area, however with so much buzz on the Midtown Greenway if we have a bike trail down Ayd Mill Road and a BRT line wouldn't that help spark the development buzz we have along the Minneapolis corridor side? I think it would be worth looking into more at least. Would love to see Ayd Mill Rd turned into development corridor with 6+ floor buildings and large amounts of retail that extend along the entire corridor and connects to the Midway Greenway too. Exciting times and exciting possibilities.
The B Line is on Lake, Marshall, then Selby. Your Ayd Mill down to 7th route is not even in the universe of the discussions. 7th might have improvements with the St Paul Streetcar.

Silophant
Moderator
Posts: 3836
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Location: The Gateway

Re: Calhoun Towers - 3430 List Place (295' - 24 stories)

Postby Silophant » October 29th, 2019, 5:37 pm

So, they ended up with just one fewer unit than the original plan, but 87 fewer parking spaces. Cool!
mattaudio wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 10:41 am
SO is it just me or is that phase also going to provide additional difficulties for future LRT along the Greenway corridor?
Looks like the plans allow for a short second platform to the south of the main platform, which I believe is currently the plan for the Greenway rail? I don't recall why it would get its own platform instead of sharing the Green Line platform though.
Image

EOst
Capella Tower
Posts: 2315
Joined: March 19th, 2014, 8:05 pm
Location: North End, Saint Paul

Re: Calhoun Towers - 3430 List Place (295' - 24 stories)

Postby EOst » October 30th, 2019, 11:18 am

Silophant wrote:
October 29th, 2019, 5:37 pm
Looks like the plans allow for a short second platform to the south of the main platform, which I believe is currently the plan for the Greenway rail? I don't recall why it would get its own platform instead of sharing the Green Line platform though.
I assume it would make operations easier? If the line operated anything like the Green Line at Union Depot Station, there could be a "streetcar" blocking one or the other direction most of the day.

MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5832
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Calhoun Towers - 3430 List Place (295' - 24 stories)

Postby MNdible » October 30th, 2019, 11:27 am

The track and platform layout shown in these plans seems consistent with the layout shown in the Midtown Transitway Study.

See especially the first page of Appendix D.

Silophant
Moderator
Posts: 3836
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Location: The Gateway

Re: Calhoun Towers - 3430 List Place (295' - 24 stories)

Postby Silophant » October 30th, 2019, 11:55 am

I guess that makes sense - I wasn't thinking about the turnaround time and how to make sure it wouldn't get in the way of Green Line trains.

CalMcKenney
Metrodome
Posts: 59
Joined: April 2nd, 2019, 8:54 am

Re: Calhoun Towers - 3430 List Place (295' - 24 stories)

Postby CalMcKenney » October 30th, 2019, 12:11 pm

Has there been any movement on the Midtown Greenway LRT since 2014 or what's the likelihood of that actually being built?

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7941
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Calhoun Towers - 3430 List Place (295' - 24 stories)

Postby mattaudio » October 30th, 2019, 6:00 pm

It limits interlining capabilities. A short sighted mistake.

alexschief
Rice Park
Posts: 439
Joined: November 12th, 2015, 11:35 am
Location: Philadelphia

Re: Calhoun Towers - 3430 List Place (295' - 24 stories)

Postby alexschief » October 31st, 2019, 8:25 am

mattaudio wrote:
October 30th, 2019, 6:00 pm
It limits interlining capabilities. A short sighted mistake.
The main constraint to interlining is the tunnel, not this building. You'd always want to interline transit routes to minimize the need for transfers to change platforms. The shallow tunnel means that a future Midtown LRT would need to enter a tunnel itself in order to join the (then) existing SWLRT tracks.


Return to “Transportation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest