B Line Lake St Rapid Bus, Midtown Rail Transit

[RailBaronYarr]

Lol. The fact that the best potential/planned urban rail line (maybe transit in general?) in the cities (grade separation already exists! land already owned by reasonable entities! 13 minute travel time from W Lake to Hiawatha!), which was also promised as a reason for 3A over other options, would need *5 years* of hard lobbying to get built shows the dysfunction in our planning and political process. I'm obviously in to help. But slow buses and family make attending meetings or coffees or whatever a challenge for me personally.

[twincitizen]

Before we get ahead of ourselves, those of us with established relationships should reach out to the following current elected/appointed officials along the route, to see where their heads are at on this:
Met Council: Adam Duininck, new head of the transportation committee, and staff (Cole Hiniker, etc.)
Hennepin County: Marion Greene and Peter McLaughlin
Minneapolis: Lisa Bender, Lisa Goodman, and Alondra Cano

Let's first get an idea of where these folks are at in terms of their knowledge of and support for putting rail in the Greenway. I'm serious about this. Let's reach out and poll them in the short term, then we'll have an idea of what the "needs" of this future group are.

Lake Street aBRT is already in the 2030 plan. As far as I know, Met Council has not yet amended that plan to include Midtown Rail, despite completing the alternatives analysis and supporting the "Dual Alternative" of aBRT and rail. I think one reason that amendment hasn't happened yet is lack of local support, both city and county. My perception (and I could be wrong) is that we need our Minneapolis electeds to get on board, and then they will lean on the Hennepin County board.

The sooner this gets advanced, the better. If it's under $250MM, it could be advanced under Small Starts. That federal program, as it exists today, could change drastically under a GOP congress in the coming years.

Addendum: the way things are set up now, I can't see CTIB getting on board with funding 30% of Midtown, as they have for other LRT projects. Despite being a link in the regional LRT system, and not a local streetcar service (as it has been incorrectly billed until recently), I do believe that the local 50% share will have to come from Hennepin County and from the City, rather than CTIB/state. That's why it is so critical that Hennepin County support this line. Without STRONG support from the Hennepin County board, this line is as dead as a doornail.

[twincitizen]

I'm posting this separately, but I think this line could mean a hell of a lot more to the City of Minneapolis than the Nicollet streetcar. Perhaps not in terms of sheer economic development potential, as the Lake/Midtown corridor is pretty built out, but certainly in terms of mobility improvement for city residents. It's a slam dunk from a purely transit perspective, and I think it would do well with the FTA, historic impacts notwithstanding.

Here's what I'm getting at:

IF the opportunity presents itself, IF the Nicollet streetcar falters or encounters further resistance from the Met Council, we need to be ready to lean on Minneapolis officials to prioritize Midtown. In fact, I think an early goal of ours should set the table for this re-prioritization, by leaning on elected officials now. If a delay or setback to Nicollet becomes reality, Minneapolis must be ready to make Midtown their #1 transit priority.

[RailBaronYarr]

I'll email Lisa Bender and Marion Greene (the latter I only met once but it's worth a shot). It will focus mostly on support/urgency while needling for any info on where it's at. I will post updates here (if any), but I think it would be wise for others who have a relationship with these two to make contact as well.

[RailBaronYarr]

Lisa Bender is very quick to respond.

We don’t even have support from the Met Council to put streetcar in as a mode in the TPP. We are working on that issue aggressively. In fact I am going to the Met Council this afternoon to advocate for this after their staff wrote a disastrous report and backpedalled on their long-standing commitment to update the new TPP to add streetcars generally (it is not even in the TPP as a mode) and the Nicollet-Central line specifically. Everything is a huge battle with the region. We have high hopes that Chair Duininck can turn the ship.

The city has prioritized the Nicollet-Central route as the highest priority for rail.

I find it disappointing that the city sees a 3-mile mixed-traffic streetcar that shaves a few minutes off travel times as a higher priority than a 4-mile one that beats even an express bus by >10 minutes in its travel area. That's my personal opinion.

Anyway, if the streetcar thing blows up, Midtown really does become the best option to push forward from Mpls' perspective.

[twincitizen]

It seems that a huge part of the problem stems from Midtown still being viewed as a "streetcar" in some circles, and not as part of the "METRO" LRT system. That needs to change. Metro Transit/Met Council has already said that it would likely be single-car LRV operating on the line. However, if the City of Minneapolis and Hennepin County are still viewing this as a streetcar, then that is likely to be a problem that extends beyond just semantics. It seems the first steps in advancing this line, before advocacy can even take place, are as follows:
1. Get Met Council (and city/county) to acknowledge the line as LRT, not streetcar
2. Then Met Council can amend TPP accordingly
3. Get Midtown on "METRO" system (this could be done later on, as to not anger any suburban CTIB officials, it's not as important as #1 and #2)

In most cases, the whole "is it streetcar, is it LRT?" thing boils down to semantics, but I really think in this case it is actually creating an unnecessary roadblock to this project. If everyone besides Minneapolis is "anti-streetcar" (county, Met Council, state leg, etc.) then step 1 is making it clear that this is part of the regional LRT system - a logical link between the Blue and Green Lines that pays enormous dividends to the system as a whole. The word "streetcar" must be disassociated with this line immediately.

Alex, could you reply to Lisa Bender on that point, without getting too "in the weeds" on the technical stuff? Just point out that Midtown IS NOT streetcar, and that the Met Council itself (staff) doesn't really view it as such.

[acs]

I think they were referring to this report:

http://www.twincities.com/transportatio ... nvestments

The full document is at the bottom of the article

[David Greene]

Lol. The fact that the best potential/planned urban rail line (maybe transit in general?) in the cities (grade separation already exists! land already owned by reasonable entities! 13 minute travel time from W Lake to Hiawatha!), which was also promised as a reason for 3A over other options, would need *5 years* of hard lobbying to get built shows the dysfunction in our planning and political process. I'm obviously in to help. But slow buses and family make attending meetings or coffees or whatever a challenge for me personally.

The issue is a political one. Minneapolis will be seen as the only beneficiary to this line, which isn't true but that's the way these things go. The problem is funding. CTIB is going to be reluctant to spend money here and this line will get no state support. I don't know whether this line would fall under Small Starts or New Starts. My guess is the latter which complicates things.

Either Minneapolis is going to have to really play hardball with other entities or it will have to find the funding itself. Neither one is an easy lift.

We need to think about this project in more than just "serve Uptown!" terms because other CMs will have no interest in fighting for something they think only benefits Uptown. We need to talk about the communities of color and low-income communities along the line. We need to talk about how this line connects to the rest of the transit system. How does this line benefit someone from Northeast? In short, we need to think about mutual self-interest.

[David Greene]

Before we get ahead of ourselves, those of us with established relationships should reach out to the following current elected/appointed officials along the route, to see where their heads are at on this:
Met Council: Adam Duininck, new head of the transportation committee, and staff (Cole Hiniker, etc.)
Hennepin County: Marion Greene and Peter McLaughlin
Minneapolis: Lisa Bender, Lisa Goodman, and Alondra Cano

Let's first get an idea of where these folks are at in terms of their knowledge of and support for putting rail in the Greenway. I'm serious about this. Let's reach out and poll them in the short term, then we'll have an idea of what the "needs" of this future group are.

That's exactly right. In my experience it is best to have a small group (like three people at most) meet with these folks, including one or more constituents. It's important to divvy up responsibility here so we get as many faces in front of these people as possible while keeping the meetings small. We need to create a movement around this and numbers matter.

It's also important to have our small groups meet before the actual meeting (a pre-meeting) to get squared away, assign people to ask questions so we make sure we get all the information, etc. Usually it's convenient to do this like 1/2 hour before the actual meeting.

We should have a get-together to strategize about these meetings. We should figure out the information we need brainstorm questions and most importantly, craft our personal stories about why this line is important. Public officials love to have anecdotes they can pull out in meetings with other public officials to make their case.

Addendum: the way things are set up now, I can't see CTIB getting on board with funding 30% of Midtown, as they have for other LRT projects. Despite being a link in the regional LRT system, and not a local streetcar service (as it has been incorrectly billed until recently), I do believe that the local 50% share will have to come from Hennepin County and from the City, rather than CTIB/state. That's why it is so critical that Hennepin County support this line. Without STRONG support from the Hennepin County board, this line is as dead as a doornail.

Excellent analysis.

[David Greene]

Alex, great work with Bender. Do you have a call out of Marion? I also have a relationship with her.

It is useful to meet face-to-face with these folks as well to really talk about what's happening. Often public officials can't or won't discuss things over phone or e-mail. It's in face-to-face meetings that you get the nitty-gritty of who needs pressure applied and so on.

[RailBaronYarr]

Alex, could you reply to Lisa Bender on that point, without getting too "in the weeds" on the technical stuff? Just point out that Midtown IS NOT streetcar, and that the Met Council itself (staff) doesn't really view it as such.

Did so right away.

Alex, great work with Bender. Do you have a call out of Marion? I also have a relationship with her.

I sent mostly the same email to Marion, but as I said I've only met her once. There probably needs to be different discussions happening at the city vs county level (different strategies at play).

[xandrex]

How does this line benefit someone from Northeast?

I'd be curious to know how anyone would sell this to someone in NE. After the SW quadrant of the city kinda-sorta get SWLRT and North gets Bottineau, it's the last remaining quadrant to not get rail. The Nicollet Streetcar is kind of NE's only shot at getting anything, as flawed as it is. That's too bad because Northeast already has some of the jankiest, least-connected bus networks in the city that really need some fixing.

I think it's going to be hard to have outsiders see this as anything but Minneapolis getting yet another rail line. Kind of makes me wonder if extending it out to anywhere else (St. Louis Park? St. Paul?) would help pick up constituencies at all.

[acs]

Strib article on the meeting Lisa Bender is going to:

http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/291550791.html

[Anondson]

If SWLRT isn't derailed (pun intended) 5th's capacity through downtown will become moderately burdened, won't it? A Midtown LRT is a moderate downtown capacity reliever for SW to MOA/Airport traffic.

[twincitizen]

In the short term, I think that solving the "streetcar" language designation problem is a critical first step. Minneapolis, Hennepin County, and Met Council need to agree/admit that this is part of the long-term regional rail network. I'll reach out to Met Council staff and see what's going on there. Lack of a local sponsor is one problem, and Minneapolis' obsession with other streetcar lines is another. Staff had planned on amending the TPP to include the line, but that obviously stalled out somewhere. With Southwest still in limbo, it seems unlikely that any of the above-mentioned elected officials will enthusiastically put this line on their back and carry it.

I disagree that talk of extending the line will be helpful. The technical analysis has been done. We have a solid recommendation from staff on the dual alternative. Let's work within those lines.

[RailBaronYarr]

If SWLRT isn't derailed (pun intended) 5th's capacity through downtown will become moderately burdened, won't it? A Midtown LRT is a moderate downtown capacity reliever for SW to MOA/Airport traffic.

How many people from SW (Mpls? Metro?) will be taking SWLRT to downtown to get to MOA/MSP? Seems like a loooong way to go, and for most of the population in those areas a drop-off or taxi would beat-out LRT in a time+cost benefit analysis. Maybe I'm wrong. Even moreso if they have to get to SWLRT, transfer to Midtown, transfer to Blue Line (transfer to the short tram).

How does this line benefit someone from Northeast?

I'd be curious to know how anyone would sell this to someone in NE.

I agree, there are nearly no benefits (maybe if Nic-Central streetcar/aBRT gets built a quality connection to Uptown/Midtown with a transfer, but that's pushing it).

Honestly, NE needs more than it's getting, even if you assume a starter streetcar and full aBRT on Central at some point (one alone is dubious), long long term that Hennepin-University streetcar? This is where a third regional rail spine would make a lot of sense, but it isn't even on anyone's radar. Something connecting from Southdale through downtown and up Central to a northern job center. I'm actually writing a streets.mn post about it, but it's not really relevant here.

[David Greene]

How does this line benefit someone from Northeast?

I'd be curious to know how anyone would sell this to someone in NE.

Yes. I deliberately picked NE because it's the most challenging sell. It'll get us thinking creatively.

I think it's going to be hard to have outsiders see this as anything but Minneapolis getting yet another rail line. Kind of makes me wonder if extending it out to anywhere else (St. Louis Park? St. Paul?) would help pick up constituencies at all.

That's an interesting thought. The way I was thinking of talking about this to Hennepin County is that it is really an extension of SWLRT, making that line more accessible to people from South Minneapolis. That it turn benefits employers in the suburbs and also people who want to go from the SW burbs to the Lakes, Uptown, etc. I'd like to get actual data but given the traffic on W Lake out of Uptown at rush hour, I have a feeling there are a number of people commuting from the nearer SW burbs to-from Uptown and points beyond.

So I kind of see Midtown as already being extended further out, via SWLRT. Sure, there's a transfer but transfers are less bothersome with rail. And we always could interline service further out later on if we want. Midtown creates a tremendous amount of flexibility in our rail network.

[Viktor Vaughn]

Midtown could be useful for someone taking the 4 from Northeast, and transfering to Midtown at Lyndale to go either East or West.

[twincitizen]

I think David was thinking less literally and more to challenge us to think of how to sell the benefits of this line. Plus, the 4 is being split into the 4 (south) and 15 (northeast) as soon as Metro Transit can afford it.

Selling this line to existing transit riders and advocates should, in theory, be easy: "Holy shit the 21 is a busy route, especially considering it doesn't go downtown, and it serves a lot of poor, transit-dependent folks!"

[David Greene]

Selling this line to existing transit riders and advocates should, in theory, be easy: "Holy shit the 21 is a busy route, especially considering it doesn't go downtown, and it serves a lot of poor, transit-dependent folks!"

Does anyone have information about current 21 ridership? How many trips are within the Uptown to Hiawatha corridor and how many of those are by transit-dependent people? I know a lot of transit-dependent riders ride all the way to St. Paul and for them the aBRT would be a better fit.

It would help us when talking about Midtown as an equity-building service. This city council was elected on an equity platform.

This is something we could ask for in a meeting with Metro Transit (Brian Lamb, etc.).