Blue Line (Hiawatha LRT)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
612transplant
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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby 612transplant » August 14th, 2012, 11:09 am

Pittsburgh has it, too, and it has always confused/scared me because there don't appear to be any traffic signals to tell drivers when it is safe to go on the tracks vs. when they need to yield. Then again, Pittsburgh's "light rail" really only ever goes "trolley" speed, and it stops at several intersections...

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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby twincitizen » September 6th, 2012, 2:23 pm

New sub-topic: Mall of America Transit Center

Keep it where it is? Move it to a different side of the mall?

Personally, I wish the LRT didn't make that giant loop around the surface parking lot and then cross a busy intersection diagonally at .2 MPH. It's bad enough that they built American Blvd Station like 10 years too early, but the train takes forever to complete that last mile from crossing 494 to MOA. 4!! minutes between 28th Ave and alighting the train under the mall is ridiculous.

In a perfect world, I would have sited the 28th Ave parking ramp differently so that the LRT could travel westward on Lindau Ln (just north of it actually, to avoid the cray traffic & turning movements). Lots of room for a transit station just east of Ikea there. The connection to the Mall could have been a skyway, in that case.

Most importantly, this improves the through-routing options to the west, most likely along American Blvd.
Again, in a perfect world, the line could have been run down the middle (or next to) 494. We're rebuilding seemingly every bridge over 494 down there, and it would have made sense to incorporate LRT or BRT stations on the bridges. My issue with putting transit on American Blvd is that there is just as much development on the north side of 494. A line running down the 494 would have been walkable (via the new bridges) from both sides of the highway. Building LRT or aBRT on American Blvd probably puts it out of walking distance from developments along 76th/77th on the Edina/Richfield side.

What are your thoughts on the MOA Station location, taking into context an probable Phase 2 development to the north? What about prospects of extending LRT to the west along Amer Blvd or 494? Is it even possible now that we've rebuilt most of the bridges as SPUI's? How should the Red & Blue lines interact and facilitate transfers? How does one get from the future Orange Line station(American Blvd/35W) station to MOA?

mattaudio
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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby mattaudio » September 6th, 2012, 2:52 pm

http://goo.gl/maps/VnlLa

In my fantasy LRT plans, I've always envisioned a new LRT station on the north side between the entrance and Lindau Lane. This is strategic for a few reasons.

First, it would place it right at the skyways between the existing MOA and Phase II.

Secondly, it would allow for better future interlining and transfering. To the west, it could connect to a line down American Boulevard, or a Cedar Ave line. To the east, it would connect not only to the current Blue Line but an interlined route could split east of Ft. Snelling Station and across the river onto Riverview. This way, MOA/Airport/Ft.Snelling could be an interlined segment of four segments operating as two continuous routes.

Finally, it would facilitate future extensions westward without significant alteration to the freeway network immediately to the west. It would have a straight shot from the station to Old Cedar Ave (where it could split for Cedar LRT and American Blvd LRT) over TH-77 but under the flyover from Lindau to South TH-77. The only change that would need to be made is lowering the grade of the eastbound 494 to southbound 77 ramp so it dips under the LRT.

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LRV Op Dude
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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby LRV Op Dude » September 6th, 2012, 3:20 pm

by twincitizen

Personally, I wish the LRT didn't make that giant loop around the surface parking lot and then cross a busy intersection diagonally at .2 MPH. It's bad enough that they built American Blvd Station like 10 years too early, but the train takes forever to complete that last mile from crossing 494 to MOA. 4!! minutes between 28th Ave and alighting the train under the mall is ridiculous.
The speed limit into MOA is 5 MPH but allowed to go to 7 MPH. Please, your upset over 4 minutes. :?
How does one get from the future Orange Line station(American Blvd/35W) station to MOA?
Rt 542, sure it would relined to connect to that station.
What are your thoughts on the MOA Station location, taking into context an probable Phase 2 development to the north?
$$$$$$$ and lot of it to move the transit station to the north side of MOA. Only make sense if LRT was on American Blvd but I would rather see that money be used to expand LRT other places.
What about prospects of extending LRT to the west along Amer Blvd or 494?
Slim to none. Most likely Arterial BRT/rapid bus. Maybe that what it should be.
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FISHMANPET
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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby FISHMANPET » September 6th, 2012, 4:36 pm

At least I'd like the train to go down 82nd st into the mall instead of that stupid loop. The whole reason for it is because MOA was a bunch of jerks, and said they never wanted the train ever, so there was going to be a station on 82nd in the middle of a parking ramp, and you'd have to walk through the MOA ramp to get to the mall. Then at the last second MOA changed their mind and they did want it, and I don't remember why but the plan along 82nd wouldn't work anymore for some reason so they had to do that stupid loop.

And that 4 minutes is a big deal when its such a pointless waste of time.

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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby UptownSport » September 6th, 2012, 7:16 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:And that 4 minutes is a big deal when its such a pointless waste of time.
I'm not sure what he was referring to there ...
Obviously time is the name of the game in transit (unless we're touring the Alps).

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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby LRV Op Dude » September 11th, 2012, 2:59 am

The new Type II Siemens S70 LRV has arrived :D
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mullen
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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby mullen » September 11th, 2012, 6:19 am

doesn't it loop at the edge of that property to preserve it for future development? that was what I was always led to believe.

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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby MSP » September 11th, 2012, 7:40 am

LRV Op Dude wrote:The new Type II Siemens S70 LRV has arrived :D

I'd love to see a picture...

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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby mulad » September 11th, 2012, 9:49 am

Someone posted these to Flickr:

Sitting at the Minnesota Commercial yard in Midway on Sunday:
Image
IMG_1501 by dwnoblee, on Flickr

Sitting on the tail track, unloaded from the flatcar on Monday:
Image
IMG_1571 by dwnoblee, on Flickr
Image
IMG_1569 by dwnoblee, on Flickr

He made a post on another local forum on the subject. I'm sure LRV Op Dude has more info, but the photographer said that it will have a lot of its initial testing happen in the airport tunnel in overnight hours. I suppose we won't see these in regular operation at all until the second one arrives and gets tested a few weeks later, since regular trains usually operate in pairs or triples -- how often does Metro Transit run single LRVs these days? Maybe a bit on the weekends? These new LRVs can't be paired up with the old ones since the electronics talk different languages.

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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby Tcmetro » September 11th, 2012, 10:59 am

Single cars are rarely operated now. The night shuttle at the airport uses only one car, though.

NickP
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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby NickP » September 11th, 2012, 12:32 pm

Can anyone shed light on the message painted on the front of the car in the second photo. I admittedly laughed out loud when I read it. :D

mattaudio
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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby mattaudio » September 11th, 2012, 12:54 pm

Humping would mean pushing the car over the hump at a classification yard. This is where you see a locomotive slowly pushing cars to the top of a hill (hump). Then they are disconnected, then gravity takes them down a hill to couple with the other cars headed to that destination, with the switches handled automatically or by someone in a control tower.

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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby mulad » September 11th, 2012, 1:02 pm

Yeah, and some cars aren't designed to handle the stress of going over the hump, or might bottom out if they did.

web

Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby web » September 11th, 2012, 7:02 pm

Again no logic behind buying cars with different languages. I live in Sacramento(where siemens made this car), and guess what they pair old siemems cars with CAF cars 15 yrs newer.(the cars are even about 1 ft different in length which is interesting especially in the 4 car rush hour lash ups.

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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby MSP » September 11th, 2012, 7:27 pm

Thank you Mulad for the pics...I wonder what they look like without the blue wrapping?

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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby VAStationDude » September 11th, 2012, 7:58 pm

I live a very short distance from the line and have not seen a single car train in recent months. Weekend morning trains do get okay ridership so two car trains are needed as the morning progresses. It makes sense just to run two car trains rather than single cars that have to take on a train later.

I see no issue with running on trains of the same type together. There will be a large fleet of both trains. Running the two types together in revenue service really doesn't provide must more operational flexability. I'd rather have the latest and greatest than outdated technology that's compatiable with the older trains. Some older systems with a mix of high floor and low floor cars mix the fleet to avoid needing wheel chair lifts or ramps. Obviously, that's not an issue here.

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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby LRV Op Dude » September 12th, 2012, 11:33 am

by mulad
I suppose we won't see these in regular operation at all until the second one arrives and gets tested a few weeks later,
Single LRVs are only used on the shuttle, as stated earlier. With that being said there are times that maintenance issues happen and we will have to cut off the bad LRV and run with a single LRV. This is not ideal as everyone has to walk to the one LRV. There has been occasion that we had to cut out a LRV during rush hour. You can imagine the problems that causes. That is something they will not have on very long. We might cut out a LRV off a 3 LRV consist and couple it to the one LRV. At night they will just keep the one LRV out there because of the low ridership in the evening.

The second LRV from Siemens scheduled to be delivered next month. I talked with a Siemens rep. He told me that the first two LRVs has to have 4000 miles of testing and the LRVs after only need 1000 miles of testing before going into service. Also all the operators need to be trained on the new equipment which will take a few weeks.
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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby LRV Op Dude » September 12th, 2012, 11:37 am

by MSP » September 11th, 2012, 8:40 am


LRV Op Dude wrote:The new Type II Siemens S70 LRV has arrived

I'd love to see a picture...
Delivery of the Type II Siemens S70

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ6xhrny-iU[/youtube]
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Le Sueur
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Re: Blue Line (Hiawatha)

Postby Le Sueur » September 13th, 2012, 10:01 pm

I don't know how I feel about this "No Humping" policy!


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