Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

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Tom H.
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby Tom H. » April 10th, 2014, 10:33 am

I encourage everyone to check out Froggie's fantasy transit system. Specifically, he did propose a 494 strip LRT line here.

mattaudio
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby mattaudio » April 10th, 2014, 10:49 am

Indeed, it could be. And it's important that the "Bloomington Strip" starts transforming into a "Bloomington Chain of Nodes" -- we can't handle the traffic necessary to accommodate existing diffuse job centers without nodes that can pulse for transit. One barrier to creating such nodes is the freeway itself... this already hampers the 515... demand is split between the north and south sides of the freeway, and crossing the freeway without a car is not feasible.

grant1simons2
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby grant1simons2 » November 6th, 2015, 9:46 pm

http://www.metrocouncil.org/Council-Mee ... 0-ppt.aspx

New design presentation to be given to the Met Council Nov. 9

Mcgizz
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby Mcgizz » November 7th, 2015, 10:53 am

In the new design they have massively improved the way people disembarking from the Blue Line will enter the mall. Not only do you no longer need to walk through the bus circulation, but you also enter directly into the mall. That is a significant improvement for pedestrian safety. Too bad there isn't any mention or idea for bike storage. Unless I am missing it.

Minneapolitan

Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby Minneapolitan » November 8th, 2015, 11:14 am

Tom H. wrote:I encourage everyone to check out Froggie's fantasy transit system. Specifically, he did propose a 494 strip LRT line here.
Ialways dreamed of this same exact thing. Lrt along 494 and even 35. It would be sooo beautiful floating past the congestion of 494 during rush hour. But where is the space for this? I dont see the city aligning a lrt with a highway. I think they would place it as a completely different mode with its own path to stimulate development around.

Since we are talking fantasy. I would like for this to be a monorail style train. One to slip into the retaining side wall of the highway, maybe have elevated stations. Monorails can even glide in and out of buildings like moa or some of the bigger office buildings in blmngtn/edina. If not a monorail then maybe a more minimal sleek bridge/stations design.

I want to see some train or people movers along 494. Anything. Im a dreamer though

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby FISHMANPET » November 8th, 2015, 11:29 pm

So it looks like the transit station would run east-west under the street there, with the escalators then going up directly into the mall? That sounds much better than the current setup. Still wish the train could come straight into the mall from the east rather than that huge loop, but this will be a big help nonetheless, and hopefully not majorally exclude that option if it becomes possible someday.

As luck would have it I'm going to a conference this Mon-Wed at the Radision Blu so I'll be through here every morning and evening for the next 3 days.
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mulad
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby mulad » November 9th, 2015, 8:32 am

Yes, the new entryway is supposed to extend under that inner loop roadway and take people straight into the mall, so riders don't need to go outside to go between the mall and the station area. That's pretty nice, though the cynic in me is noticing all the ways that the MOA folks are trying to remove any interactions between cars and pedestrians around the mall lately. On the other hand, the station also extends all the way to the sidewalk on the 24th Avenue side, making it much more obvious where to go for anyone reaching the station from hotels or other nearby buildings. (I think going up 24th was also the only way to legally get to Ikea until the new mall addition opened).

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jw138
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby jw138 » November 9th, 2015, 9:24 am

Looking down the road many years... It looks like this adds the capability of adding another convenient LRT platform in the west "reconfigured parking". I hope any future development along 24th Ave and Old Shakopee Road won't preclude rail going north (to then swing westward along 494) or south (converted Red Line should it be needed). It'd be nice if we were looking forward a couple decades and doing things to accommodate an even larger south metro transit hub in a way that won't cost an arm and a leg in financial or political capital when the time comes.

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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby HiawathaGuy » November 9th, 2015, 2:25 pm

mulad wrote:Hmm, the expansion implies that the existing casino/charter/intercity(?) bus area north of the mall is going away, or perhaps it already has. Is that being folded into the regular transit center?
I'm pretty sure that I read that that's moving to the new "front door" area. That's where valet service will be offered as well. That should mean those buses will no longer be using the transit center for drop off/pickup.

Minneapolitan

Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby Minneapolitan » November 24th, 2015, 12:09 pm

When is the transit station going to be renovd?

What is a time frame for this?

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RailBaronYarr
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby RailBaronYarr » November 24th, 2015, 1:32 pm

Will someone with a detailed understanding of LRT ops/layover practices, union requirements, etc please write a streets.mn post about whether or not this proposal will work if LRT is chosen for Riverview with an MOA terminus? I think it's pretty important as far as super technical issues that end up costing millions more to fix down the road are concerned...

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby HiawathaGuy » November 24th, 2015, 3:31 pm

Minneapolitan wrote:When is the transit station going to be renovd?

What is a time frame for this?
Grant's post of the PDF above has that info on Pg. 10.
Image

trigonalmayhem

Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby trigonalmayhem » November 25th, 2015, 10:30 am

RailBaronYarr wrote:Will someone with a detailed understanding of LRT ops/layover practices, union requirements, etc please write a streets.mn post about whether or not this proposal will work if LRT is chosen for Riverview with an MOA terminus? I think it's pretty important as far as super technical issues that end up costing millions more to fix down the road are concerned...
It seems like you expect them to think that far in advance, when the bus detours have clearly shown they are completely unable to do so.

I mean if they were forward thinking at all they'd have put the station on the north side of the mall and integrated it into the expansion that was definitely already being planned a long ass time ago. Then it would allow the line to be extended and you could have all sorts of options that didn't involve very limited space, poor connectivity to the mall itself, and a super sharp turn.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby VacantLuxuries » November 25th, 2015, 10:43 am

How would a north side connection have worked in 2004?

froggie
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby froggie » November 25th, 2015, 11:38 am

Minneapolitan wrote:Ialways dreamed of this same exact thing. Lrt along 494 and even 35. It would be sooo beautiful floating past the congestion of 494 during rush hour. But where is the space for this?
I spec'd mine out along American Blvd because that road is generally overbuilt and the space exists. You don't need 6 lanes for a roadway that barely maxes out above 21K AADT.

Minneapolitan

Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby Minneapolitan » November 25th, 2015, 1:40 pm

They have superbowl 2018 as a significant time for this plan to serve. But the construction goes thru the 4Q/17. Yikes. Cutting close.

Minneapolitan

Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby Minneapolitan » November 25th, 2015, 1:43 pm

froggie wrote:
Minneapolitan wrote:Ialways dreamed of this same exact thing. Lrt along 494 and even 35. It would be sooo beautiful floating past the congestion of 494 during rush hour. But where is the space for this?
I spec'd mine out along American Blvd because that road is generally overbuilt and the space exists. You don't need 6 lanes for a roadway that barely maxes out above 21K AADT.

YES! perfect

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby HiawathaGuy » January 12th, 2016, 4:32 pm

http://finance-commerce.com/2016/01/ced ... ioritized/

Tucked in this unlocked article about Cedar Avenue Transitway improvements was this update on the MOA Transit Station Upgrades:

"Today Red Line buses face delays at the Mall of America transit station, where buses use the same entrance as delivery vehicles. Planned improvements at the megamall would offer buses a separate entrance and increase the number of pick-up and drop-off gates from four to 17. The Cedar Avenue Transitway plan allocates $6.7 million to the project.

Though the $25 million project is seen as the answer to reduce delays for all of the bus routes at the mall, it still has an $8.75 million funding gap, said Jeff Freeman, project manager at Metro Transit. Planners will request money to fill the gap in the upcoming bonding bill.

Design plans on the new station are underway this month with help from Cary, North Carolina-based Kimley-Horn. Freeman estimates construction will start in fall of 2016 and finish up by Black Friday 2017."

trigonalmayhem

Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby trigonalmayhem » January 12th, 2016, 5:27 pm

I was on board with this before but I honestly don't know how I feel about investing any more public money into a transit center where the mall thinks it has the right and ability to eject people and treat it like private property with a different set of rules than the rest of the transit system operates on. It almost seems like it would be better spent finding a way to remove the transit center from the mall entirely since the owners seem to be hellbent on treating even the transit center like private space.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Mall of America Transit Station: Master Plan

Postby HiawathaGuy » January 13th, 2016, 9:25 am

trigonalmayhem wrote:I was on board with this before but I honestly don't know how I feel about investing any more public money into a transit center where the mall thinks it has the right and ability to eject people and treat it like private property with a different set of rules than the rest of the transit system operates on. It almost seems like it would be better spent finding a way to remove the transit center from the mall entirely since the owners seem to be hellbent on treating even the transit center like private space.
I guess I'm curious as to your information... this has always been a meld of two worlds (private/public), since the mall was built. Metro Transit has had a transit center in the main level of the parking ramp, that MOA built and owns. So I'm not really sure why you'd think that 22 years later, this should all of the sudden change? And how, given the incredibly limited transit funds out there, would you propose removing the transit center from the mall? It's just not reality. Nor would the transit center have the appeal to riders that it does now, if it was removed.

I think it's easy to look at this from the outside and complain. But the relationship certainly works well in the context of what both parties are trying to achieve.


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