Street, Road and Highway Projects

[PhilmerPhil]

I agree with mndible. We should strive to make better north South routes connecting to the green way ave downtown a bigger priority than another east west route.

Well, good thing bike infrastructure is super cheap to install, so we should be able to do both.

[VAStationDude]

I biked something like 4500 miles last year so I have the skill to bike most anywhere. under no circumstances would I feel comfortable riding on 36th at Nicollet. It's a lost cause. Efforts are better spent elsewhere.

[RailBaronYarr]

This is an insane conversation.

- No, 15% annual bike mode share for all trips is not fairyland. 2010 Minneapolis already had a 5.1% mode share for all trips averaged over the full year (11.8% in the summer for commuters). I'm sure these have increased since 2010.
- Those mode shares are *despite* the fact that the "dense network" we already have is, if we're being honest, unacceptable for 70% of the population. I have to pull teeth to get my wife to ride on painted door zone bike lanes. Bike boulevards make her really uncomfortable. Call it whatever word you want besides "significant" - it's just not going to cut it for the vast majority of people from a perceived safety standpoint. We end up going way out of our way to get many places, and thankfully we do have the 36th St protected bikeway to get us to the chain o' lakes trails. But we end up driving a LOT to get anywhere east of 35W for eating, light shopping, visiting friends, etc because getting up to the Greenway (or, worse, down to Minnehahavia the lakes) is a significant enough detour on a round trip to make us simply drive. I'm not saying we should be doing more intensive bike infrastructure without reconstructing these streets - painted and buffered lanes get more people out on the streets for regular daily trips, helping change the perception of biking in the long-run. But to pretend that this is enough is laughable.
- 35W does indeed pull N-S car traffic off local N-S streets, so, great. But guess what! People live at those crossing/entrance/exit points; walking to bus stops, crossing on shitty sidewalks to get groceries on the other side, and even starting or ending their bike trips on those very streets. Bike infrastructure in the here and now could actually be a tool to calm those areas for everybody. Since our legislators (and indeed, many pro-urban voices on this very forum) aren't willing to toll urban freeways, we have no mechanism to discourage the many local trips that could easily be taken by other modes but end up hopping on the freeway instead. So the city is left with pricing parking, calming traffic, and reducing auto/parking capacity in favor of other modes as our only options. But yeah, just a total waste

When I think about bike infrastructure, I never think about myself. I think about if my wife (a person who's very open to the idea of hopping on a bike for regular transportation and does it with me quite frequently) and my son (who at 2 years old literally begs us to go for bike rides) deserve better that what we have. When my kid is 10, I want him to be able to bike to Powderhorn Park with his friends without having to use the Midtown Greenway (crossing Lake St twice to do it). I want my wife to be able to meet people at Pepitos without having to go all the way down to the Minnehaha Creek. I want people living in Longfellow to be able to bike to GiGis or Victor's or the Tiny Diner without needing the Greenway. I want a family whose daycare is basically straight east or west of their house by a mile to feel comfortable bringing the kid there by bike in the summer (and when weather is a bad, a reasonable bus frequency to do the same) and then head into downtown or wherever they work. Defending a system that leaves literally acres of (free!) on-street parking vacant on east-west streets because, hey, these cross-town bike facilities will be sparsely used.. man, I dunno. And this is South Minneapolis, where we actually have the Greenway and creek trails. N/NE Minneapolis and most of St Paul have nothing like that to ease non-downtown bound trips.

It's not our winter or our sparsely populated outer neighborhoods keeping people from biking more often. It's our shitty bike infrastructure outside a few key park trails and the Greenway.

[MNdible]

Our shitty bike infrastructure, which apparently has more lanes of "significant" bike lanes per mile than anywhere else in the country.

[EOst]

Our shitty bike infrastructure, which apparently has more lanes of "significant" bike lanes per mile than anywhere else in the country.

Yes, America, a land known far and wide for its high-quality baseline for bike infrastructure.

[RailBaronYarr]

Of course, I didn't mean to sound so negative. But I sincerely hope everyone on this board knows that comparisons within the US are mostly meaningless, and our bike rankings rely heavily on the off-street park trails and Greenway which, while awesome, are not oriented around efficient, regular access to our city's jobs, shopping, dining, and other destinations.

Like I said, our "significant" on-street bike infrastructure is great if you're a 20-30 something white male who is confident enough to take the lane on every leg of every trip. If you're anyone else, it's stressful enough to just not bother. Which is why people don't.

[Mcgizz]

Our shitty bike infrastructure, which apparently has more lanes of "significant" bike lanes per mile than anywhere else in the country.

Are you trying to say that we shouldn't complain about our biking infrastructure because everyone else has it worse? If we compare our biking infrastructure to places outside the U.S that have significant investment in biking infrastructure are you still willing to say our is, by comparison, not shit?

Just trying to understand what your past comment means.

[grant1simons2]

Being in Chicago has made me appreciate what we have in Minneapolis. But we're far from done with building bike infrastructure. In a healthy bike friendly city, it shouldn't stop until absolutely everyone feels safe on a bike.

[VAStationDude]

I strongly disagree a pbl on busy streets like 36th would encourage more people to bike than low traffic bike boulevards. Heavy high speed traffic is far more dangerous than mixing with cars very occasionally. I just don't get the hate on river lake greenway. It crosses two of the biggest impediments to n-s bike travel effectively. Crossing Hiawatha needs improvement but it's otherwise pretty great.

Maybe the hate flows because complaining is more fun than enjoying one big hill and having to negotiate a couple stop signs.

[FISHMANPET]

There's no hate on the Greenway, it just isn't a panache for every single East West trip. It's a great path, and for any trip of significant East West AND North South movement, I'd choose the Greenway for that movement. But the Greenways not very useful to you if you're going primarily East or West on streets South of Lake or hell even North of 26th/28th.

So I guess I hate that the Greenway only occupies a single line in space time rather than existing on all East West routes simultaneously.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[EOst]

I strongly disagree a pbl on busy streets like 36th would encourage more people to bike than low traffic bike boulevards. Heavy high speed traffic is far more dangerous than mixing with cars very occasionally. I just don't get the hate on river lake greenway. It crosses two of the biggest impediments to n-s bike travel effectively. Crossing Hiawatha needs improvement but it's otherwise pretty great.

Maybe the hate flows because complaining is more fun than enjoying one big hill and having to negotiate a couple stop signs.

Low-traffic bike boulevards are great, but they cannot replace bike routes on streets that actually have destinations. There's a reason that Nicollet (without bike lanes) still sees as much or more bike traffic than 1st/Blaisdell.

[VAStationDude]

I was referring to the riverlake greenway (aka 40th street) not the midtown greenway.

Aside from the idiots how treat it as a race way regardless of congestion and give other roadies a bad name, the midtown greenway is spectacular.

[amiller92]

Like I said, our "significant" on-street bike infrastructure is great if you're a 20-30 something white male who is confident enough to take the lane on every leg of every trip.

For what it's worth, my casual sense is that I see as many women on bikes during my commutes as men.

Then again, I use Park and Portland, which I would not do if there were not on-street lanes. But sometimes I wonder why I don't just use one of the quieter, less-trafficked avenues (or 17th).

[RailBaronYarr]

I believe that's a perception, and I feel it, too. The UMN study showed that bikes made up 11% of all trips made year round by males in Minneapolis and only 6.4% for females in 2010 (you'll notice the average of the two is higher than the number I cited earlier because it's "participation" defined as having taken at least one trip of that mode on a given day rather than actual trip-by-trip mode share for the other stat). Anyway, I'm generalizing there. What I meant to get across is there are significant chunks of all demographics that don't feel comfortable biking on on-street painted lanes or bike boulevards, and the young male segment skews a bit more confident.

[Mdcastle]

Rehabilitation of the existing Winona Bridge is on pause because costs have soared to $30 Million over budget.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/winonabridge ... costs.html
(Question #7 was submitted by me)

[mattaudio]

Minneapolis is requesting that MnDOT add or remove certain city streets from the Municipal State Aid system.
http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 176784.pdf

Map:
http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 176783.pdf

[MNdible]

Of note, Granary Road is on the list to be removed, which must mean the city is giving up on building it in the near term.

[froggie]

Not just Granary Rd, but the SEMI area in general.

[HiawathaGuy]

http://www.transportationalliance.com/

I saw Lt. Governor Smith shared a Facebook link for Transportation Alliance over the weekend. It's a group calling for increased road & transit funding. I also heard an add on my Pandora station this morning. Seems like a good PR campaign. Check it out, sign up, share!

[mattaudio]

http://www.transportationalliance.com/

See their other site, http://fundourroads.com/

I saw Lt. Governor Smith shared a Facebook link for Transportation Alliance over the weekend.

A liability for her future gubernatorial ambitions.

It's a group calling for increased road & transit funding.

Transit funding, if that helps them get road funding.

I also heard an add on my Pandora station this morning.

They really are insidious.

Seems like a good PR campaign.

Nope.

Check it out, sign up, share!

Nope.