Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5989
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby MNdible » August 5th, 2014, 10:08 am

In that vein, I hated on the SB 4 bus stop at Groveland as much as anyone, but even if it was the worst bus stop in the city, at least it was a bus stop. If I'm reading correctly, there will be no SB 4 stop between Oak Grove and Franklin? That's a long stretch.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby twincitizen » August 5th, 2014, 10:14 am

It's not really fair to say "there are no stops between Oak Grove and Franklin", because there are no destinations in the southern half of that stretch. The reality is that someone living along the Groveland/Douglas corridor will have to walk up to the Vineland stop (Sculpture Garden corner). Let's make that stop amazing, and no one will complain.

The other thing is that the only affected users of the death stop are folks heading southbound from this area down to points along the Lyndale corridor. The stop should be "boarding only" as it is. No one actually needs to get off the 4 here...they simply got on the wrong bus downtown. (And no, I don't think the stop is needed to preserve one seat rides on the 4 from the other side of the river...just transfer to a 6 anywhere downtown)

MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5989
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby MNdible » August 5th, 2014, 10:18 am

Really? This is a very dense part of the city, and even in its wretched current condition, this stop probably gets more use than about 95% of the stops in the system.

I'm glad that you've taken it upon yourself to be the decider of who gets to ride which bus to where.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby twincitizen » August 5th, 2014, 10:26 am

Yes, it truly negatively affects a number of people who board the southbound 4 here. I don't know the number.
It does not affect southbound riders getting off here from downtown. They should be using the 6 anyways.
It does not affect northbound trips whatsoever.

Yes, there are drawbacks. No, they are not as bad as they first seem.

It amounts to an additional ~3 minute walk along the blank facade of the Walker (and just once per day at that). Let's hope the Walker does something about their sloping sidewalk and stupid grass circle plaza.

There are always winners and losers in any large public project. Here there will be a few reverse commuter riders of the Route 4 that wind up losers, especially if they are mobility challenged. On the bright side, for those same people, walking through the area (which they obviously do often) will be much more pleasant. And I hope we build a heck of a nice bus shelter for the SB stop at Vineland.

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby David Greene » August 5th, 2014, 11:19 am

A small problem with the the A option is that the few route 25 buses that serve Kenwood use the bypass to access Douglas, if I understand it correctly.
They're getting an LRT.

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby David Greene » August 5th, 2014, 11:22 am

Option A is unworkable due to the Route 25. It also cuts off Douglas Ave residents' ability to access NB bottleneck.
I don't think there's Northbound access in any of the Douglas scenarios. They're all right-out only. People will drive to Groveland. It won't kill 'em.

Anondson
IDS Center
Posts: 4645
Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby Anondson » August 5th, 2014, 11:34 am

They're getting an LRT.
Heh. :)

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby David Greene » August 5th, 2014, 12:21 pm

Option A is unworkable due to the Route 25. It also cuts off Douglas Ave residents' ability to access NB bottleneck.
I don't think there's Northbound access in any of the Douglas scenarios. They're all right-out only. People will drive to Groveland. It won't kill 'em.
In fact there is no northbound access today. Option A is the only one that preserves the current access to Douglas - right in, right out.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby twincitizen » August 5th, 2014, 12:35 pm

David, we're talking about access from Douglas to NB bottleneck at Groveland, VIA the "frontage road" in question. Of course there's no northbound access directly from Douglas. Option A would eliminate the frontage road entirely, except for RIRO access at Douglas and a private drive from Kenwood Gables.

Option C closes Douglas off from Hennepin entirely (no more RIRO), but preserves existing access to the bottleneck at Groveland, via the frontage road. Clearly Option A provides the most green space, but seems unworkable for local access and the Route 25. Word going around last night was that Option A wasn't really an option at all.

Like I said before, Option C plus narrowing the "frontage road" down to ~30' would seem ideal. I would guess it's 40-44 feet wide today.

User avatar
woofner
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1242
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:04 am

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby woofner » August 5th, 2014, 12:51 pm

Thanks, Matt, for posting the pics. Otherwise we'd probably have to wait several weeks for the consultant whose sole purpose is to manage the web site to upload them.

A few questions: were there any details as to what the "additional green/pedestrian/bicycle space" would entail? Sure, separation of bike/ped on the Loring Bikeway, but any other expansion of bike/ped facilities? How about trees in the now enormous median?

Second, any discussion of transit whatsoever?
"Who rescued whom!"

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby twincitizen » August 5th, 2014, 12:55 pm

No discussion of transit whatsoever (aside from posters stating the 9000 bus trips per day). No Metro Transit reps at the meeting. They are completely absent from this process.

No word whatsoever on shelters, signage, signal priority, nothing. I implored several consultants and city staff to get Met Council on board now and get concurrent funding for bus stop improvements.

Anondson
IDS Center
Posts: 4645
Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby Anondson » August 5th, 2014, 12:57 pm

The Strib covers the open house with a few maps of options.

http://m.startribune.com/news/?id=270011681&c=y

bubzki2
Foshay Tower
Posts: 811
Joined: September 19th, 2012, 5:38 pm
Location: Snelling-Hamline

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby bubzki2 » August 5th, 2014, 1:04 pm

The Strib covers the open house with a few maps of options.

http://m.startribune.com/news/?id=270011681&c=y
The commenters see this as the next stage in the Minneapolis war on cars. Frankly, I see this as an improvement for the cars as well. Greater predictability and less weaving should help lower the motorists' blood pressure.

HiawathaGuy
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1636
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 12:03 pm

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby HiawathaGuy » August 5th, 2014, 1:10 pm


mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7752
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby mattaudio » August 5th, 2014, 1:17 pm

How is MetroTransit missing in all this? And a significant part of the blame lays with the consultants and City Public Works... how can they do a project without consulting with MT? You'd think that's one of the first stakeholders they call into the meetings.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7752
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby mattaudio » August 5th, 2014, 1:21 pm

So they are removing the southbound 4 stop on Lyndale (which Nick has written about on Streets). Why not just build a little bus-only hop from the Hennepin lanes to South Lyndale near Summit Ave? Then the 4/6/12 can share a *nice* southbound stop at Groveland.

And I still don't understand the need for the northbound left turn to Vineland when people can just U it at Dunwoody.

User avatar
Nathan
Capella Tower
Posts: 3695
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:42 am

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby Nathan » August 5th, 2014, 1:39 pm


twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby twincitizen » August 5th, 2014, 1:40 pm

I'm sure Metro Transit staff have been part of internal meetings. I just don't get the feeling they're contributing on a high level here. They're not even bothering to send anyone to the public meetings. They're clearly not planning any enhancements concurrent with this project. Really frustrating.

User avatar
Nathan
Capella Tower
Posts: 3695
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:42 am

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby Nathan » August 5th, 2014, 1:46 pm

I'm sure Metro Transit staff have been part of internal meetings. I just don't get the feeling they're contributing on a high level here. They're not even bothering to send anyone to the public meetings. They're clearly not planning any enhancements concurrent with this project. Really frustrating.
we asked that question specifically to one of the hosts and they said that metro transit is having a major part of their technical meetings and approving any detail before they move forward with concepts, and that once the purple areas and excess areas are finalized then metro transit is going to come in and decide exactly what they can to in the new spaces rather than come up with a concept every time the public meetings and design team change it.

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4241
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project

Postby FISHMANPET » August 5th, 2014, 2:01 pm

A friend of mine works at his family's printing shop that printed up all the boards and such for this meeting. Small world.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: JT$ and 52 guests