Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
In that vein, I hated on the SB 4 bus stop at Groveland as much as anyone, but even if it was the worst bus stop in the city, at least it was a bus stop. If I'm reading correctly, there will be no SB 4 stop between Oak Grove and Franklin? That's a long stretch.
-
- Moderator
- Posts: 6383
- Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
- Location: Standish-Ericsson
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
It's not really fair to say "there are no stops between Oak Grove and Franklin", because there are no destinations in the southern half of that stretch. The reality is that someone living along the Groveland/Douglas corridor will have to walk up to the Vineland stop (Sculpture Garden corner). Let's make that stop amazing, and no one will complain.
The other thing is that the only affected users of the death stop are folks heading southbound from this area down to points along the Lyndale corridor. The stop should be "boarding only" as it is. No one actually needs to get off the 4 here...they simply got on the wrong bus downtown. (And no, I don't think the stop is needed to preserve one seat rides on the 4 from the other side of the river...just transfer to a 6 anywhere downtown)
The other thing is that the only affected users of the death stop are folks heading southbound from this area down to points along the Lyndale corridor. The stop should be "boarding only" as it is. No one actually needs to get off the 4 here...they simply got on the wrong bus downtown. (And no, I don't think the stop is needed to preserve one seat rides on the 4 from the other side of the river...just transfer to a 6 anywhere downtown)
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
Really? This is a very dense part of the city, and even in its wretched current condition, this stop probably gets more use than about 95% of the stops in the system.
I'm glad that you've taken it upon yourself to be the decider of who gets to ride which bus to where.
I'm glad that you've taken it upon yourself to be the decider of who gets to ride which bus to where.
-
- Moderator
- Posts: 6383
- Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
- Location: Standish-Ericsson
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
Yes, it truly negatively affects a number of people who board the southbound 4 here. I don't know the number.
It does not affect southbound riders getting off here from downtown. They should be using the 6 anyways.
It does not affect northbound trips whatsoever.
Yes, there are drawbacks. No, they are not as bad as they first seem.
It amounts to an additional ~3 minute walk along the blank facade of the Walker (and just once per day at that). Let's hope the Walker does something about their sloping sidewalk and stupid grass circle plaza.
There are always winners and losers in any large public project. Here there will be a few reverse commuter riders of the Route 4 that wind up losers, especially if they are mobility challenged. On the bright side, for those same people, walking through the area (which they obviously do often) will be much more pleasant. And I hope we build a heck of a nice bus shelter for the SB stop at Vineland.
It does not affect southbound riders getting off here from downtown. They should be using the 6 anyways.
It does not affect northbound trips whatsoever.
Yes, there are drawbacks. No, they are not as bad as they first seem.
It amounts to an additional ~3 minute walk along the blank facade of the Walker (and just once per day at that). Let's hope the Walker does something about their sloping sidewalk and stupid grass circle plaza.
There are always winners and losers in any large public project. Here there will be a few reverse commuter riders of the Route 4 that wind up losers, especially if they are mobility challenged. On the bright side, for those same people, walking through the area (which they obviously do often) will be much more pleasant. And I hope we build a heck of a nice bus shelter for the SB stop at Vineland.
-
- IDS Center
- Posts: 4617
- Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
They're getting an LRT.A small problem with the the A option is that the few route 25 buses that serve Kenwood use the bypass to access Douglas, if I understand it correctly.
-
- IDS Center
- Posts: 4617
- Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
I don't think there's Northbound access in any of the Douglas scenarios. They're all right-out only. People will drive to Groveland. It won't kill 'em.Option A is unworkable due to the Route 25. It also cuts off Douglas Ave residents' ability to access NB bottleneck.
-
- IDS Center
- Posts: 4665
- Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
- Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
Heh.They're getting an LRT.
-
- IDS Center
- Posts: 4617
- Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
In fact there is no northbound access today. Option A is the only one that preserves the current access to Douglas - right in, right out.I don't think there's Northbound access in any of the Douglas scenarios. They're all right-out only. People will drive to Groveland. It won't kill 'em.Option A is unworkable due to the Route 25. It also cuts off Douglas Ave residents' ability to access NB bottleneck.
-
- Moderator
- Posts: 6383
- Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
- Location: Standish-Ericsson
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
David, we're talking about access from Douglas to NB bottleneck at Groveland, VIA the "frontage road" in question. Of course there's no northbound access directly from Douglas. Option A would eliminate the frontage road entirely, except for RIRO access at Douglas and a private drive from Kenwood Gables.
Option C closes Douglas off from Hennepin entirely (no more RIRO), but preserves existing access to the bottleneck at Groveland, via the frontage road. Clearly Option A provides the most green space, but seems unworkable for local access and the Route 25. Word going around last night was that Option A wasn't really an option at all.
Like I said before, Option C plus narrowing the "frontage road" down to ~30' would seem ideal. I would guess it's 40-44 feet wide today.
Option C closes Douglas off from Hennepin entirely (no more RIRO), but preserves existing access to the bottleneck at Groveland, via the frontage road. Clearly Option A provides the most green space, but seems unworkable for local access and the Route 25. Word going around last night was that Option A wasn't really an option at all.
Like I said before, Option C plus narrowing the "frontage road" down to ~30' would seem ideal. I would guess it's 40-44 feet wide today.
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
Thanks, Matt, for posting the pics. Otherwise we'd probably have to wait several weeks for the consultant whose sole purpose is to manage the web site to upload them.
A few questions: were there any details as to what the "additional green/pedestrian/bicycle space" would entail? Sure, separation of bike/ped on the Loring Bikeway, but any other expansion of bike/ped facilities? How about trees in the now enormous median?
Second, any discussion of transit whatsoever?
A few questions: were there any details as to what the "additional green/pedestrian/bicycle space" would entail? Sure, separation of bike/ped on the Loring Bikeway, but any other expansion of bike/ped facilities? How about trees in the now enormous median?
Second, any discussion of transit whatsoever?
"Who rescued whom!"
-
- Moderator
- Posts: 6383
- Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
- Location: Standish-Ericsson
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
No discussion of transit whatsoever (aside from posters stating the 9000 bus trips per day). No Metro Transit reps at the meeting. They are completely absent from this process.
No word whatsoever on shelters, signage, signal priority, nothing. I implored several consultants and city staff to get Met Council on board now and get concurrent funding for bus stop improvements.
No word whatsoever on shelters, signage, signal priority, nothing. I implored several consultants and city staff to get Met Council on board now and get concurrent funding for bus stop improvements.
-
- IDS Center
- Posts: 4665
- Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
- Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
The Strib covers the open house with a few maps of options.
http://m.startribune.com/news/?id=270011681&c=y
http://m.startribune.com/news/?id=270011681&c=y
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
The commenters see this as the next stage in the Minneapolis war on cars. Frankly, I see this as an improvement for the cars as well. Greater predictability and less weaving should help lower the motorists' blood pressure.The Strib covers the open house with a few maps of options.
http://m.startribune.com/news/?id=270011681&c=y
-
- Wells Fargo Center
- Posts: 1636
- Joined: June 4th, 2012, 12:03 pm
-
- Stone Arch Bridge
- Posts: 7760
- Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
- Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
How is MetroTransit missing in all this? And a significant part of the blame lays with the consultants and City Public Works... how can they do a project without consulting with MT? You'd think that's one of the first stakeholders they call into the meetings.
-
- Stone Arch Bridge
- Posts: 7760
- Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
- Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
So they are removing the southbound 4 stop on Lyndale (which Nick has written about on Streets). Why not just build a little bus-only hop from the Hennepin lanes to South Lyndale near Summit Ave? Then the 4/6/12 can share a *nice* southbound stop at Groveland.
And I still don't understand the need for the northbound left turn to Vineland when people can just U it at Dunwoody.
And I still don't understand the need for the northbound left turn to Vineland when people can just U it at Dunwoody.
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
documents should be here
http://www.hennepinlyndaleproject.com/p ... ities.html
http://www.hennepinlyndaleproject.com/p ... ities.html
-
- Moderator
- Posts: 6383
- Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
- Location: Standish-Ericsson
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
I'm sure Metro Transit staff have been part of internal meetings. I just don't get the feeling they're contributing on a high level here. They're not even bothering to send anyone to the public meetings. They're clearly not planning any enhancements concurrent with this project. Really frustrating.
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
we asked that question specifically to one of the hosts and they said that metro transit is having a major part of their technical meetings and approving any detail before they move forward with concepts, and that once the purple areas and excess areas are finalized then metro transit is going to come in and decide exactly what they can to in the new spaces rather than come up with a concept every time the public meetings and design team change it.I'm sure Metro Transit staff have been part of internal meetings. I just don't get the feeling they're contributing on a high level here. They're not even bothering to send anyone to the public meetings. They're clearly not planning any enhancements concurrent with this project. Really frustrating.
- FISHMANPET
- IDS Center
- Posts: 4241
- Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
- Location: Corcoran
Re: Hennepin & Lyndale Bottleneck Project
A friend of mine works at his family's printing shop that printed up all the boards and such for this meeting. Small world.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 209 guests