Shoreview: Lexington redo

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
OPAFiets1
Block E
Posts: 14
Joined: April 11th, 2013, 7:07 am

Shoreview: Lexington redo

Postby OPAFiets1 » April 11th, 2013, 2:50 pm

New to the board (please be somewhat nice).

Ramsey county is planning to reconstruct portions of Lexington north and south of 694. There are a number of things about the current plan that concern me from a pedestrian & cycling standpoint. I'm looking for input on improvement options. The plan is here:

http://www.co.ramsey.mn.us/NR/rdonlyres ... 91712.pdf

Some of my concerns (though I may be missing many):

- Though ideally I'd like to see separate pedestrian and cycle tracks, short of that I think significantly widening the MUP on the east side would be beneficial. They are putting a wide MUP on the west, but it's a bit of a MUP to nowhere since peds & bikes can only cross 694 on the east side.

- Cty F intersection. Perhaps a couple of culverts (one under F & one under Lex)? One problem might be a rather steep rise going up/down hill to the north. If crossings must be kept at grade, how can they be made safer, particularly from turning vehicles? All reds for ped/bike crossing times? Flashing pucks in crossings?

- I really dislike the widened radius on the turns since they only encourage people to go that much faster and pay that much less attention to peds & bikes. If these are primarily to accommodate semi's, what if they are tabled to allow semi's to use them slowly but make enough of a bump for autos to slow down and stay off of them?

- Gramsie intersection. Unreasonable to request putting per/bike crossing on a table? Same for other low traffic side roads like the entrance to the service station south of 694?

- Red Fox Rd intersection. Similar concerns to Cty F. ??

Thanks all.

mamundsen
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1016
Joined: November 15th, 2012, 10:01 am

Re: Shoreview: Lexington redo

Postby mamundsen » April 11th, 2013, 3:23 pm

Is this due to the changes on 694-10?

Does this have anything to do with Blue Fox closing or is that up for redevelopment?

Suburban Outcast
Landmark Center
Posts: 239
Joined: June 10th, 2012, 8:33 pm

Re: Shoreview: Lexington redo

Postby Suburban Outcast » April 11th, 2013, 5:39 pm

Probably, this project looks similar to the Rice Street expansion near TH 36 minus the narrow bike lanes. They seem to keep expanding roads with freeway access to 4 to 6 lane psuedo-expressways with medians while limiting access with certain intersections in the northeast suburbs.

OPAFiets1
Block E
Posts: 14
Joined: April 11th, 2013, 7:07 am

Re: Shoreview: Lexington redo

Postby OPAFiets1 » April 11th, 2013, 6:44 pm

I don't think this has anything directly to do with 694/10 though I'd guess they waited to do it until after the Lex bridge over 694 was done as part of that project. There is also a separate Shoreview city project to redo Red Fox Rd east of Lexington that I'm still waiting to see the plans for (also Cty D between Lex & Victoria).

OPAFiets1
Block E
Posts: 14
Joined: April 11th, 2013, 7:07 am

Re: Shoreview: Lexington redo

Postby OPAFiets1 » July 9th, 2013, 12:11 pm

Project layout has been updated a bit.

http://www.co.ramsey.mn.us/NR/rdonlyres ... t91712.pdf

Nothing to improve pedestrian and bicycle safety or ease of use. Any thoughts on ways to improve this would be appreciated. A while back I did a quickie post on localmile.org http://localmile.org/?p=6

Some thoughts.

Lex & F:
- No or inadequate refuges for crossing Lexington.
- Wide radiused corners encourage cars to take these corners quite fast without looking for peds/cyclists. I've almost been hit twice. Can the area between these radiuses and a tighter radius be tabled 3" to help slow vehicles down?
- Placement of crossing buttons so cyclists can access them easier.
- Anti-skid on paths approaching roadway? Wonder if Peds & Cyclists can be separated at the intersection to allow each to have appropriate and safe crossing and then come back together for the path?
- Transition to roadways likely narrows from full path width requiring peds/cyclists to all crowd towards center

No crossing @ Gramsie (people walking from Land O' Lakes cross here fairly often.
Path alignment @ Red Fox Road
Why does the path on the west side of Lexington continue to the freeway entrance? Path to nowhere?

Tom H.
Rice Park
Posts: 414
Joined: September 4th, 2012, 5:23 am

Re: Shoreview: Lexington redo

Postby Tom H. » July 9th, 2013, 1:05 pm

I used to walk to this area (just south of it, actually - the Target / Cub complex near Lex & E2) when I was an undergraduate at Bethel. It was not unheard of for students to cross over Snelling/51 by either just jaywalking across the highway, or by taking the railroad bridge just north of E2. I can pretty much guarantee that a pedestrian bridge at Red Fox Rd over to the Bethel campus would get good usage from car-less Bethel students, since many make the (illegal) crossing already.

pannierpacker
Metrodome
Posts: 53
Joined: July 16th, 2013, 6:25 pm

Re: Shoreview: Lexington redo

Postby pannierpacker » July 22nd, 2013, 2:52 am

OPAFiets1 wrote:I don't think this has anything directly to do with 694/10 though I'd guess they waited to do it until after the Lex bridge over 694 was done as part of that project. There is also a separate Shoreview city project to redo Red Fox Rd east of Lexington that I'm still waiting to see the plans for (also Cty D between Lex & Victoria).
Actually, this has everything to do with the 694/10/51 project. Hwy 51 was part of the 694/10 project. One of the mitigation measures that the city of Arden Hills wanted was to beef up Lexington to compensate for the closing of the exits/entrances on Hwy 51. The first part of that was the widening of the Lexington Ave Bridge. The 2nd part of it is the County Road F intersection with Lexington and the stretch from there to 694.

The theory is that Lexington and Cty F will see a lot more traffic together after all of the changes in the area.

pannierpacker
Metrodome
Posts: 53
Joined: July 16th, 2013, 6:25 pm

Re: Shoreview: Lexington redo

Postby pannierpacker » July 22nd, 2013, 3:00 am

Tom H. wrote:I used to walk to this area (just south of it, actually - the Target / Cub complex near Lex & E2) when I was an undergraduate at Bethel. It was not unheard of for students to cross over Snelling/51 by either just jaywalking across the highway, or by taking the railroad bridge just north of E2. I can pretty much guarantee that a pedestrian bridge at Red Fox Rd over to the Bethel campus would get good usage from car-less Bethel students, since many make the (illegal) crossing already.
I used to walk it as well as a Bethel undergrad. Students would frequently cross Hwy 51 at the Bethel Entrance and walk over to Red Fox Road. There used to be a nice service road that made walking over to Red Fox from Bethel a lot easier. Perkins was a late night study destination for several of my friends and I remember joining them on one occasion.

The railroad bridge is indeed used by Bethel students as well. The school suffers with parking issues and continually has had to expand their lots. Some students can't get parking vouchers so they pay Flahertys to park their car in their lot and then they walk across the railroad bridge to get into campus. Arden Hills has plans to put a sidewalk on the Cty Rd E bridge, but the railroad bridge is still the most direct connection for Bethel students heading over to Flahertys.

The Red Fox pedestrian bridge would get some use. Bethel has offices and classrooms east of Snelling in the RedFox/GreyFox area now. However, Bethel is also very protective of their campus, and has controlled access after hours. I am not sure how keen they would be on a pedestrian overpass going right into their campus. Install a card access pedestrian gate and barb-wire fencing at the end of the pedestrian bridge perhaps?

pannierpacker
Metrodome
Posts: 53
Joined: July 16th, 2013, 6:25 pm

Re: Shoreview: Lexington redo

Postby pannierpacker » July 22nd, 2013, 3:12 am

OPAFiets1 wrote:Project layout has been updated a bit.

http://www.co.ramsey.mn.us/NR/rdonlyres ... t91712.pdf

Nothing to improve pedestrian and bicycle safety or ease of use. Any thoughts on ways to improve this would be appreciated. A while back I did a quickie post on localmile.org http://localmile.org/?p=6

Some thoughts.

Lex & F:
- No or inadequate refuges for crossing Lexington.
- Wide radiused corners encourage cars to take these corners quite fast without looking for peds/cyclists. I've almost been hit twice. Can the area between these radiuses and a tighter radius be tabled 3" to help slow vehicles down?
- Placement of crossing buttons so cyclists can access them easier.
- Anti-skid on paths approaching roadway? Wonder if Peds & Cyclists can be separated at the intersection to allow each to have appropriate and safe crossing and then come back together for the path?
- Transition to roadways likely narrows from full path width requiring peds/cyclists to all crowd towards center

No crossing @ Gramsie (people walking from Land O' Lakes cross here fairly often.
Path alignment @ Red Fox Road
Why does the path on the west side of Lexington continue to the freeway entrance? Path to nowhere?
-I agree that the wide turning radii should be scaled back.
-I doubt we'll see a grade separated pedestrian crossing at the Cty Rd F intersection. There are many bigger intersections that don't have that today. For example, Cty Rd 96 and Lexington. I am not sure that either of these places warrants it given the cost. That said, crossing a double left as a pedestrian isn't fun. I think they'll need to give pedestrians a safe crossing with a red left turn arrow to get through those areas.
- I think that for the Land O Lakes employees heading east, they should install a pedestrian crossing at the Lexington and 694 stoplight. This would be a logical location to have a crossing since there is already a signal there. I am not sure if it would make sense to have another crossing close to there that is unprotected.
-I wish the bridge widening project would have included a trail on the west side of Lexington over 694. It will be needed someday and will probably require a dedicated standalone pedestrian bridge in order to accommodate. The rebuild of Lexington over 694 is a long ways away.
-It sounds like Red Fox Road will wind up with dual sidewalks when all is said and done, based on comments sent to me via email from the Shoreview city staff. That will be a nice improvement.
-Interestingly enough, Ramsey County is also doing a traffic study of Lexington Ave south of 694 down to County Road E.

OPAFiets1
Block E
Posts: 14
Joined: April 11th, 2013, 7:07 am

Re: Shoreview: Lexington redo

Postby OPAFiets1 » July 24th, 2013, 10:30 am

They have added a crossing between the 694 ramps and Gramsie. Good not just for LOL employee's, but also for people who bike down the west side path without realizing it dead-ends at a freeway on-ramp.

Any comments from Shoreview about how cyclists are supposed to use Red Fox? If someone wants to ride their bike to Five Guys do they use the sidewalk? Vehicle lanes?

In northern Europe an underpass for Lex & F would seem to be a toss-up. Done if possible, but not a major requirement. A couple of engineers I've talked with have said that putting culverts in is really not that expensive of a solution in many cases, just not thought of very often since pedestrians and cyclists have been an afterthought added to a project once vehicle lanes are done. Not sure how good of a solution it'd be for this project, but just wanted to get it explored a bit.

I would think that some well done cycling/ped infrastructure connecting Har/Mar, Rosedale, NWC (excuse me, University of NW St Paul, a natural evolution), Bethel, and the Lex area would get considerable use. Given all of the increased heartache with parking for students I'd think the two uni's would push for this so students could ride bikes everywhere.

quinnt01
Block E
Posts: 1
Joined: July 14th, 2018, 12:25 pm

Re: Shoreview: Lexington redo

Postby quinnt01 » July 14th, 2018, 12:43 pm

I'm replying to an old thread since the county has just completed some major updates on Lexington Avenue, north of Larpenteur, that ignore bicycle safety and I think it's relevant again.

As a regular bicycle commuter along Lexington north to 694 I've been very interested in safety improvements. The small shoulder I ride on is increasingly becoming more dangerous as traffic speeds up with texting drivers. Lexington is very wide from Larpenteur to 694 with a huge center turn lane. It seemed to me that reducing its width a few feet and adding that to the shoulder would be a simple thing that would greatly improve bicycle safety.

I've been corresponding with a "Senior Planner, Ramsey County Public Works" since 2012 about this and his message was always we don't have the money to re-strip Lexington, but we're making plans and will do a major update in a few years. Well, those few years have come and gone and the new and improved Lexington Avenue has beautifull smooth blacktop with all the traffic lines painted exactly where they've been for decades.

This is very disappointing to me on many levels. Foremost, I'm at an age where things will not be improved in my lifetime. It's now hopeless. On another level I have to wonder how such decisions get made. Who is in charge of these things? Did they not consider improving bike safety at all? Or did they purposely decide to ignore it?

I've sent a follow-up email the the "Senior Planner" asking these questions, but not surprisingly he's ignoring me.

I'm sorry if this comes across as a rant, but my god it's frustrating.

Thanks,
Tom


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