Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
billhelm
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby billhelm » July 23rd, 2015, 1:24 pm

twincitizen wrote:I thought that Car2Go's system actually prohibited you from parking in such areas (via GPS coordinates so precise they can tell what side of the street you're on and direction). Like you just can't end a trip in such "tow away zones", at least the metered ones.

If you look at the interactive map on their website, it's clear that Marquette and 2nd are "zoned out" of use, but 1st Ave N does not appear to have the same restriction.

There are other random little "bubbles" on the map too, like Lagoon Ave and Dean Parkway, so I'm not quite sure what's going on there.
They block some, but not all of them, that's probably the ultimate solution to the issue on E Hennepin.

widin007
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby widin007 » July 23rd, 2015, 7:20 pm

I worked for Car2go for a bit and they have a system that flags any cars that are parked in the wrong areas and there is a team of drivers whose job it is to move them. The more at risk the car is to getting a ticket or towed the higher the priority. If it does get ticketed or towed tho, the last account to have driven gets charged the full amount.

billhelm
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby billhelm » August 25th, 2015, 10:27 am

http://www.startribune.com/council-memb ... 322828461/

Car2Go proposing to scale back service in Minneapolis, particularly in North Minneapolis.

mattaudio
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby mattaudio » August 25th, 2015, 10:37 am

I'd like to see a map of the proposed boundary changes.

kirby96
Union Depot
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby kirby96 » August 25th, 2015, 12:04 pm

It will be interesting to watch this play out. Lots of moving parts/things to consider.

mulad
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby mulad » August 25th, 2015, 12:20 pm

mattaudio wrote:I'd like to see a map of the proposed boundary changes.
A map of how much the service is used is also important -- how many existing customers will they shortchange by trimming the service area? And obviously if changes happen in Minneapolis, then probably half of Saint Paul will lose Car2Go as well...

MNdible
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby MNdible » August 25th, 2015, 12:42 pm

Lisa Bender is getting beat up on Twitter over her quote in the Strib article.

Meanwhile, can I just note that this confirms my earlier concerns about extending Car2Go service (and by extension, NiceRide) to areas with too-low population density and demand?

masstrlk67
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby masstrlk67 » August 25th, 2015, 1:39 pm

Does Car2Go share any user data? I had thought of Car2Go primarily as a convenience option rather than as an equity tool.

amiller92
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby amiller92 » August 25th, 2015, 1:47 pm

mulad wrote:
mattaudio wrote:I'd like to see a map of the proposed boundary changes.
A map of how much the service is used is also important -- how many existing customers will they shortchange by trimming the service area? And obviously if changes happen in Minneapolis, then probably half of Saint Paul will lose Car2Go as well...
It's hard to tell exactly what they're talking about. If they mean to scale back where there is little to no use, that might make sense, and would presumably not leave many existing customers shortchanged.

mulad
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby mulad » August 25th, 2015, 1:52 pm

MNdible wrote:Lisa Bender is getting beat up on Twitter over her quote in the Strib article.

Meanwhile, can I just note that this confirms my earlier concerns about extending Car2Go service (and by extension, NiceRide) to areas with too-low population density and demand?
I'm not ready to draw a conclusion about the needed density for Car2Go-style services yet. This service will be two years old next month -- compare that to the couple decades it usually takes for a new technology or product to become mainstream. They probably overshot the initial mark, but I don't think we're hitting an inherent limit.

twincitizen
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby twincitizen » August 25th, 2015, 1:54 pm

The most absurd part of this whole "equity blowback" angle is that Car2Go isn't cheap. It's quite expensive, in fact. Would it be nice if they served the whole city? Sure, it would be convenient, but I don't think it is necessary for them to operate. It's insane for the equity crowd to demand things of Car2Go, a private company, that they don't even demand of a public entity like Metro Transit (i.e. 15-minute service on every local route, etc.) This is the equivalent of saying that cell phone reception ought to be the exact same in all corners of the city, because they have some antenna towers on public property. Public property is involved (cell towers or parking spaces), but there is no direct subsidy changing hands because licensing fees are being paid.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby FISHMANPET » August 25th, 2015, 2:06 pm

According to this contract, Car2Go pays parking fees based on overall actual usage, not some feel good estimate.

EOst
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby EOst » August 25th, 2015, 2:26 pm

Yes, it is truly remarkable that disadvantaged neighborhoods complain when an entity seeks permission to further disadvantage them.

kirby96
Union Depot
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby kirby96 » August 25th, 2015, 2:30 pm

There's a map of the Portland cut-back indicating 8% of trips started and stopped in the areas cut (which were all on the periphery).

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby RailBaronYarr » August 25th, 2015, 2:49 pm

EOst wrote:Yes, it is truly remarkable that disadvantaged neighborhoods complain when an entity seeks permission to further disadvantage them.
Doesn't this whole debate center on how one sees car2go fitting into the spectrum with access to clean water and electricity on one hand and Lexus service shops on the other (or pick your own luxury service, maybe Pizza Hut delivery areas)? I'm not saying I'm on either side, it just doesn't seem like car2go, a service that charges $0.41 per minute to get around is exactly the same as a utility or even the city negotiating (or requiring equal coverage for) garbage services. twincitizen's point on cell coverage is another good example. If we want point-to-point personal mobility via car sharing as a public service, is it better to demand service areas of car2go or potentially integrate that offering into Metro Transit's business model?

Other questions: car2go isn't serving wealthy Edina right now, nor less-wealthy Crystal/Brooklyn Center/North St Paul. Was this an issue before? Right now, the border is mostly arbitrary.

I'm assuming the business case for cutbacks is because 1) very few members in North Minneapolis (& parts of St Paul), and 2) cars sit idle in those places for much longer, presenting an opportunity cost of usage as well as potential real cost to send someone out and move them back to a hotter zone. Potential solution car2go should have come to the table with: steep discounts to move cars that have sat idle for 12+ hours in certain zones. No labor to move them, build membership & usage in under-served areas, work with the city on a cost-share program if equity is a real sticking point and costs seem too high. That's a much more responsible proposal from the business (even if it's debatable if they really need to).

amiller92
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby amiller92 » August 25th, 2015, 2:49 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:According to this contract, Car2Go pays parking fees based on overall actual usage, not some feel good estimate.
Huh. Figured they had some sort of deal that's better than that. Seems like maybe they should.

EOst
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby EOst » August 25th, 2015, 2:53 pm

I don't know about you, but personally I suspect the people best qualified to answer whether this is ~that kind~ of equity issue are the people who would be impacted by it.

MNdible
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby MNdible » August 25th, 2015, 3:05 pm

If they came in cold and said they didn't want to serve certain parts of the city, that would be a hard sell. But now that they have a solid year of operations behind them, and usage stats resulting from it, it seems like they should be able to adjust their service accordingly.

xandrex
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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby xandrex » August 25th, 2015, 3:12 pm

RailBaronYarr wrote:Potential solution car2go should have come to the table with: steep discounts to move cars that have sat idle for 12+ hours in certain zones.
This wouldn't be particularly difficult to implement, given that they already have a tagging system where cars that haven't been used in a while (though checking the app, I don't see it, so maybe it's seasonal?) can be driven and a portion of the trip fees go to charity or something like that.

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Re: Car Sharing / Rental (Car2Go, HourCar, etc.)

Postby acs » August 25th, 2015, 3:13 pm

Before ~those people~ get all outraged and play the race card, maybe they should ask nicely to see Car2Go's books? Or maybe look at how they've done similar downsizing in other cities? Contrary to what some "community leaders" will have their constituents believe, I don't think there was ever a conspiracy to screw over anyone in the twin cities let alone N. Minneapolis.


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