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Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: December 13th, 2017, 9:56 am
by mulad
That vehicle was on an episode of Fully Charged in October. It's a fairly slow vehicle with a "theoretical" max speed of 40 km/h (25 mph), and they said the in-service speed was more typically in the 10-20 km/h (6-12 mph) range. Okay for a very dense place, but I suspect this particular vehicle wouldn't cut it in the suburbs. I'm sure this is classified as a low-speed vehicle, so it is probably illegal for it to go on any roadways where the speed limit exceeds 35 mph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k5TDZ6irG4

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: December 14th, 2017, 10:16 pm
by Multimodal
That was fun to watch, thanks for the link. Yeah, it looks like that particular vehicle isn’t much faster than walking.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 20th, 2018, 10:42 am
by DanPatchToget
http://www.southwestjournal.com/news/gr ... -greenway/

We better not be shelving the Midtown Greenway LRT for this.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 20th, 2018, 11:19 am
by VacantLuxuries
If it gets transit infrastructure built in the corridor this side of 2030 and it doesn't involve giving up the bikeway, why not?

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 20th, 2018, 11:32 am
by MNdible
There was a big push back around 1999 or so to put buses in the trench, but the MGC rallied to kill that idea.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 20th, 2018, 11:51 am
by Bakken2016
MNdible wrote:
February 20th, 2018, 11:32 am
There was a big push back around 1999 or so to put buses in the trench, but the MGC rallied to kill that idea.
Would that resolution from 1999 prevent operations of these small buses too? I think that running them would take away the usage from Pedestrians and Bicyclists. Midtown Rail should be a priority once SWLRT is built!

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 20th, 2018, 2:11 pm
by BoredAgain
Where are they thinking it would run? Blocking the bike/walking path? I doubt it would handle the terrain challenges if it wasn't on the existing path. If it isn't blocking the path, the other half of the greenway is separated by a fence and "not accessible".

Also, a lot of that article talks about getting people that aren't near existing transit spines. That is essentially a short distance automated taxi service provided with public dollars. That sounds like a tremendous waste to me.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 20th, 2018, 3:11 pm
by tmart
BoredAgain wrote:
February 20th, 2018, 2:11 pm
Where are they thinking it would run? Blocking the bike/walking path? I doubt it would handle the terrain challenges if it wasn't on the existing path. If it isn't blocking the path, the other half of the greenway is separated by a fence and "not accessible".

Also, a lot of that article talks about getting people that aren't near existing transit spines. That is essentially a short distance automated taxi service provided with public dollars. That sounds like a tremendous waste to me.
I won't be surprised if AV pushers try to argue that they should run in bike lanes (etc) because of their purported safety. The AV lobby generally shows a very poor awareness of geographic factors.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 20th, 2018, 4:04 pm
by MNdible
You guys saw that this was just running between Hennepin and Lyndale, right? It's not a real service. It's just a little demonstration project.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 20th, 2018, 4:34 pm
by EOst
It's only 2 meters across, and it will probably move slower than most cyclists on a bad day, so it shouldn't be too much of an impediment.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 20th, 2018, 4:55 pm
by Bakken2016
EOst wrote:
February 20th, 2018, 4:34 pm
It's only 2 meters across, and it will probably move slower than most cyclists on a bad day, so it shouldn't be too much of an impediment.
It still makes me worry that they will scrap Midtown LRT for something like this. Midtown LRT should be built, 13 min crosstown would be a major improvement.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 20th, 2018, 5:09 pm
by talindsay
Bakken2016 wrote:
February 20th, 2018, 4:55 pm
It still makes me worry that they will scrap Midtown LRT for something like this. Midtown LRT should be built, 13 min crosstown would be a major improvement.
I strongly agree. This sort of thing is a great straw man for killing real investment.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 20th, 2018, 5:35 pm
by Multimodal
BoredAgain wrote:Also, a lot of that article talks about getting people that aren't near existing transit spines. That is essentially a short distance automated taxi service provided with public dollars. That sounds like a tremendous waste to me.
Yeah, it’s proposed as a last-mile solution, and then in the next breath they talk about it as a solution for a transit line. Makes no sense.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 20th, 2018, 10:27 pm
by DanPatchToget
Multimodal wrote:
February 20th, 2018, 5:35 pm
BoredAgain wrote:Also, a lot of that article talks about getting people that aren't near existing transit spines. That is essentially a short distance automated taxi service provided with public dollars. That sounds like a tremendous waste to me.
Yeah, it’s proposed as a last-mile solution, and then in the next breath they talk about it as a solution for a transit line. Makes no sense.
In this country, and with our current not-so-friendly-towards-transit government, there will be more emphasis on AVs as transit line replacements. Meanwhile in other countries where their governments are more friendly towards transit (basically any European country) the emphasis will likely be on AVs being a last mile solution to/from a transit stop.

Midtown LRT could be built by 2030. Hell, it could've been built in 1998 when freight trains were rerouted out of that corridor. But that requires competent transit planners who aren't just focusing on trying to bring high quality transit to transit-hostile areas and politicians who don't automatically say "but what about autonomous cars?".

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 21st, 2018, 12:24 am
by FISHMANPET
I will say, as a board member of the MGC:
Bakken2016 wrote:
February 20th, 2018, 11:51 am
Would that resolution from 1999 prevent operations of these small buses too? I think that running them would take away the usage from Pedestrians and Bicyclists. Midtown Rail should be a priority once SWLRT is built!
The MGC is not a government entity, we don't set policy. We're basically a neighborhood organization. Hennepin county could tear out the bikeway tomorrow and put in a highway, we can't stop them.

And it's not clear exactly what the county is "testing" here with this pilot. Hopefully we'll know more when we meet with the county guy in the article later this week.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 21st, 2018, 8:34 am
by Bakken2016
FISHMANPET wrote:
February 21st, 2018, 12:24 am
I will say, as a board member of the MGC:
Bakken2016 wrote:
February 20th, 2018, 11:51 am
Would that resolution from 1999 prevent operations of these small buses too? I think that running them would take away the usage from Pedestrians and Bicyclists. Midtown Rail should be a priority once SWLRT is built!
The MGC is not a government entity, we don't set policy. We're basically a neighborhood organization. Hennepin county could tear out the bikeway tomorrow and put in a highway, we can't stop them.

And it's not clear exactly what the county is "testing" here with this pilot. Hopefully we'll know more when we meet with the county guy in the article later this week.
Good to know, please keep us updated.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 21st, 2018, 9:46 am
by amiller92
FISHMANPET wrote:
February 21st, 2018, 12:24 am
The MGC is not a government entity, we don't set policy. We're basically a neighborhood organization. Hennepin county could tear out the bikeway tomorrow and put in a highway, we can't stop them.

And it's not clear exactly what the county is "testing" here with this pilot. Hopefully we'll know more when we meet with the county guy in the article later this week.
Could you ask why this test is being done on our premier bike/ped facility, either closing it at its busiest stretch or taking space and possibly safety away from bikes and peds, when it could be just as easily be done on any number of our very great quantity of streets? Basically, why are they testing a car on a bike/ped path?

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 21st, 2018, 10:02 am
by Silophant
And if they feel they must test it on a bike path, because they can't possibly inconvenience cars (I mean, it's Hennepin County), why not one of the dual-path sections of the Cedar Lake or Kenilworth Trails? Then they could at least just closed one path and have two-way traffic on the other.

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 21st, 2018, 10:12 am
by Multimodal
I can see that they would want to connect two fairly close business nodes, so people would have a reason to try it (rather than just being out in the middle of nowhere where people would likely drive there to test it out).

In that case, why not use 31st street for the demo, between Hennepin & Lyndale?

Re: Future cars / Driverless cars

Posted: February 21st, 2018, 10:16 am
by Silophant
That's true. Man, what if we had some sort of shared space running between those two areas, up at ground level and, like, just a block north of Lake?