Future Cars: Electric and Autonomous Vehicles

[Anondson]

This is half about electric cars and half about solar and wind turbine electricity storage.

Companies are well on the way to making the batteries from electric vehicles find a second life as storage for solar and wind when their suitability for vehicles is spent.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... hey-retire

[mplsjaromir]

Is this bad?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/27/busi ... tesla.html

[Silophant]

Looooool

[Anondson]

Rather than try to drop huge subsidies to get electric 4000 lb cars made for hauling a 200 lb person, India shifted to launching companies making e-rickshaws.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... c-vehicles

Not only have they been cleaner (very importantly so), but the e-rick drivers can make a greater income because they are cheaper to maintain and can be used to make many more rides.

India has since sold more e-rickshaws than China has sold electric cars.

[Anondson]

Kinda future car news, GM laying off up to 14,000 (15% of its workforce) partly to place stronger focus on battery electric architectures.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ ... 112539002/

[bubzki2]

Cheap gas strikes again. This is really a further shift to sell fewer loss leader, fuel-efficient ICE cars, and more crossovers and SUVs for the bottom line. Very much like what Ford did recently. BEVs are coming either way as they'll very soon be cheaper to buy and own than even cheap ICE cars. Interestingly, the Volt PHEV was among the six models killed off, and the Bolt EV hasn't sold particularly well, either.

[Multimodal]

Yeah, something to do with larger vehicles getting a break on gas mileage requirements, pushing American companies to sell SUVs.

Terrible long-term plan, unless the idea is only to make van & bus-like vehicles that makes sense for an autonomous vehicle-based service, where people won’t own cars individually anymore. But I doubt GM is thinking about anything other than short-term profits of trucks & SUVs.

The Bolt hasn’t sold well because GM’s dealers don’t want it to sell well (little maintenance & repairs needed for EVs, so little dealer profit long term), and it probably doesn’t generate much profit for GM, either.

But Tesla builds enough EVs & batteries to bring costs down, so their vehicles are profitable.

In 10 years, the number of car companies will be 1/2 or 1/4 of what we have today. It’s going to be bloody.

[Anondson]

Wired ran this article on what electric cars deal with in the cold.

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-ca ... ther-tips/

[Multimodal]

Not so different from lead-acid batteries not starting, or gas—and especially diesel—engines not performing well in the coldest temperatures; covering your radiator, etc.

[mister.shoes]

Considering I have my eye on the VW I.D. BUZZ and I live in &^#$%ing cold Minneapolis, that was a good article to read. Should probably set aside some $$$ to insulate and heat the garage by the time the new bus is available.

[Bob Stinson's Ghost]

This may be relevant. It's my favorite Norwegian Tesla review so far:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ5PqPeOPT0

[mplsjaromir]

Musk is a brain genious

[bubzki2]

That's a BIG "IF." That long-promised 35k TM3? Vaporware thus far. Go out and buy a Hyundai Kona EV in a month or two (37k), get full tax credit, readable gauges, less pretension, and better range.

[Bob Stinson's Ghost]

Here's another Norwegian test of non-Tesla BEV's in winter driving:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdvTRzOeIgo

They seem to have performed quite adequately, even in the cold temperatures.

[Multimodal]

That's a BIG "IF." That long-promised 35k TM3? Vaporware thus far. Go out and buy a Hyundai Kona EV in a month or two (37k), get full tax credit, readable gauges, less pretension, and better range.

The Kona is a low-volume compliance car. It won’t even be available in most states initially, and when it is, it will be in low volumes. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2019 ... all-trims/

Meanwhile the Tesla Model 3 is being produced at the rate of hundreds of thousands per year.

I’m as disappointed as anyone that it’s taken so long to ramp up and get the cost down, but it seems like it’s happening.

[Bob Stinson's Ghost]

Dealers make most of their profits from service. No dealer who sells both BEV's and ICE powered vehicles is going to work to sell BEV's.

Something which really interests me about the transition to pure electric vehicles is the degree to which it will boost bicycle ridership. A lot of people who don't ride because they feel physical exertion while breathing tailpipe emissions is a poor health choice might start riding to work.

[bubzki2]

That's a BIG "IF." That long-promised 35k TM3? Vaporware thus far. Go out and buy a Hyundai Kona EV in a month or two (37k), get full tax credit, readable gauges, less pretension, and better range.

The Kona is a low-volume compliance car. It won’t even be available in most states initially, and when it is, it will be in low volumes. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2019 ... all-trims/

Meanwhile the Tesla Model 3 is being produced at the rate of hundreds of thousands per year.

I’m as disappointed as anyone that it’s taken so long to ramp up and get the cost down, but it seems like it’s happening.

Nowhere in that article is it stated this is a compliance car. Because it isn't. Hyundai/KIA has no strong need or desire for a compliance car in the first place as they don't rely on light trucks and SUV almost exclusively like the US Big Three do. This is a car designed to sell in volume. If it weren't, they would NOT be releasing the eNiro and Soul EV along side. Do your research. The ZEV-first US sales is a no-brainer. They're going to ramp up once KDM is saturated. Lots of battery production in Korea. Car expensive to ship. If not, just go to CA to buy the car. With DCQC, long ranges, and the PlugShare app, it would be an easy (and fun) road trip back home to MN. I'd bet money you could get one of these in your hands before the illusive, stripped down TM3 short range if you made an effort.

[Multimodal]

Nowhere in that article is it stated this is a compliance car. Because it isn't. Hyundai/KIA has no strong need or desire for a compliance car in the first place as they don't rely on light trucks and SUV almost exclusively like the US Big Three do. This is a car designed to sell in volume. If it weren't, they would NOT be releasing the eNiro and Soul EV along side. Do your research. The ZEV-first US sales is a no-brainer. They're going to ramp up once KDM is saturated. Lots of battery production in Korea. Car expensive to ship. If not, just go to CA to buy the car. With DCQC, long ranges, and the PlugShare app, it would be an easy (and fun) road trip back home to MN. I'd bet money you could get one of these in your hands before the illusive, stripped down TM3 short range if you made an effort.

From the article:
“It may take some time for all 50 states to get the Kona Electric, though. To start, Hyundai will limit the car's rollout to ZEV states (states with zero-emission-vehicle requirements), because high demand will keep its Korean-based supply on the low side. Over time, Hyundai hopes to expand the car's availability to non-ZEV states, but there's no estimate for how long that'll take.”

So Hyundai “hopes” to expand the car’s availability to non-ZEV states?

This article from November says they’re producing 5,000/month; meanwhile Tesla Model 3 is already producing 5,000/week and ramping up.

https://electrek.co/2018/11/21/hyundai- ... tion-ramp/

[Tiller]

I wanted to get a Kia Soul EV for my first car but they weren't even sold in MN. Still haven't gotten a car, but the first one is gonna be a Tesla now.

[Bob Stinson's Ghost]

Sam Rockwell in the Strib:

http://www.startribune.com/we-have-to-g ... 510640872/

Up to this point I had considered him to be a deep thinker. Apparently he hasn't considered how much more bicycling and walking would be done if breathing tailpipe emissions wasn't a prerequisite.

Or maybe he's thought of it, but just thinks the effect is too unknown and can't be counted on to meet the targets. I'd like to discuss it with him some time.