A Line - Arterial Rapid Bus

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
mulad
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby mulad » December 8th, 2015, 10:35 am

They gave away a better design for the Red Line, but it's probably good to have these buses use a darker front end to distinguish from the regular buses.

This also isn't the greatest photo ever. Here's a link to a shot from Drew Kerr which is brighter:

https://twitter.com/drewbkerr/status/67 ... 18400?s=09

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Silophant
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby Silophant » December 8th, 2015, 1:29 pm

Do we have anything more specific than "sometime in 2016" as a start date yet? I don't think so, but maybe I missed it?

intercomnut
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby intercomnut » December 8th, 2015, 1:34 pm

Silophant wrote:Do we have anything more specific than "sometime in 2016" as a start date yet? I don't think so, but maybe I missed it?
Just got an email saying that they're announcing the opening date next year. Also, there's only one stop (Snelling & St. Clair) that's under heavy construction and it should be complete by the end of the year.

David Greene
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby David Greene » December 8th, 2015, 1:36 pm

intercomnut wrote:
Silophant wrote:Do we have anything more specific than "sometime in 2016" as a start date yet? I don't think so, but maybe I missed it?
Just got an email saying that they're announcing the opening date next year.
Sometime next year.

Snelbian
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby Snelbian » December 8th, 2015, 5:19 pm

intercomnut wrote:
Silophant wrote:Do we have anything more specific than "sometime in 2016" as a start date yet? I don't think so, but maybe I missed it?
Just got an email saying that they're announcing the opening date next year. Also, there's only one stop (Snelling & St. Clair) that's under heavy construction and it should be complete by the end of the year.
And that's only southbound. Northbound construction there is just about wrapped up. I also shelters going in at Randolph and one of the stops further south today.

twincitizen
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby twincitizen » December 14th, 2015, 4:29 pm


ProspectPete
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby ProspectPete » December 15th, 2015, 2:15 pm

It looks like the platforms are no higher than the rest of the curbs in the city.

Can't tell from the pictures if the A line busses "squat" to allow wheelchairs to access (through the back door).

grant1simons2
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby grant1simons2 » December 15th, 2015, 2:27 pm

Image

I think it's closer than usual buses and won't have to "kneel" down to the elderly as much, but still will for people in wheelchairs.

FranklinAveFixation
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby FranklinAveFixation » December 15th, 2015, 3:06 pm

In my experience on the Red Line drivers still need to extend the ramp for almost all wheelchairs.
Level boarding=marketing gimmick that does next to nothing practically speaking.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby VacantLuxuries » December 15th, 2015, 3:23 pm

When it comes to wheelchairs and ramps, sure. For anyone walking, it certainly will speed things up. Many Americans have trouble with stairs due to being overtly snack friendly.

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jw138
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby jw138 » December 15th, 2015, 3:30 pm

LRT can make it happen because trains are on fixed tracks and don't have to worry about hitting the platform to maintain a one inch gap (or whatever it is).

EDIT: I hope that's the reason, anyways. If not, why?

mulad
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby mulad » December 15th, 2015, 3:49 pm

Charles Carlson tweeted a link to this PDF from SFMTA discussing some of the issues with buses and high(er) platforms. There's a decent quick-answer summary on the last page: http://www.sfcta.org/sites/default/file ... %20PPC.pdf

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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby RailBaronYarr » December 16th, 2015, 10:38 am

I have to say I'm a bit disappointed the platform height isn't level with the bus floor. I understand the reasoning; getting the bus gap just right takes more time and the bus will be prone to getting dinged up. But most stations have bulb-outs to allow the bus to pull up in the traffic lane. I have to believe this aids the aligning process. I wonder if a stripe of paint at the station pavement where the bus' left wheel should go would help even more. The SF document did also highlight the stair riser height issue for people stepping off the platform to put a bike on the rack. I'm a heavy user of bike+bus commuting and have even advocated for alternate designs that would work quite nicely with a level boarding bus... but this issue seems like it could be mitigated with another step off the "front" of the platform.

With all that said, I'm also very curious how much net time is saved by avoiding the aligning slowdown at every stop vs. adding an extra 30+ seconds every time a person with a disability boards. This feels like they took the easier/cheaper path by not dealing with raising the platforms up in tricky sidewalk areas to me.

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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby twincitizen » December 16th, 2015, 1:50 pm

I think the number of walkers/strollers/carts & mobility impaired folks greatly exceeds the number of wheelchair users. With the near-level boarding, the ramp will only need to be extended for actual wheelchairs, which are probably pretty rare on most routes. On Nicollet Mall routes, for example, you could probably make the argument that actual level boarding is necessary, because they'd be deploying the ramp quite a bit.

And truthfully, it's not the deploying of the ramp that takes up that much time...it's the fact that the driver must get out of their seat to secure the wheelchair restraints. I'd estimate that action takes 2-3x as long as the actual ramp going up and down. If we could come up with a technological replacement for the manual wheelchair restraints, that would really speed things up.

Tcmetro
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby Tcmetro » December 16th, 2015, 2:40 pm

Here in Chicago the bus drivers don't bother to secure the wheelchairs on the bus.

masstrlk67
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby masstrlk67 » December 16th, 2015, 3:48 pm

Seattle's RapidRide, their branding of aBRT, has a passive restraint system that doesn't require driver assistance. http://seattletransitblog.com/2011/06/1 ... restraint/

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jw138
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby jw138 » December 16th, 2015, 4:13 pm

I've never actually observed a wheelchair enter an LRT train. Does it work in a similar fashion or is a restraint of some sort not required since trains don't make as sharp of turns as a buses do?

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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby HiawathaGuy » December 16th, 2015, 4:15 pm

jw138 wrote:I've never actually observed a wheelchair enter an LRT train. Does it work in a similar fashion or is a restraint of some sort not required since trains don't make as sharp of turns as a buses do?
There are no restraints on LRVs. Which always made me wonder why buses have to be the polar opposite. I would imagine it's because of a greater chance of tipping or stopping fast. But a train certainly has those risks to some degree as well. I thought MT was looking into the same options as the Seattle article for its buses as well.

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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby BlueShine » December 16th, 2015, 10:40 pm

twincitizen wrote: And truthfully, it's not the deploying of the ramp that takes up that much time...it's the fact that the driver must get out of their seat to secure the wheelchair restraints. I'd estimate that action takes 2-3x as long as the actual ramp going up and down.
In my experience, most of this delay comes from the passengers who have to wait to board while the driver is securing the wheelchair restraints. It shouldn't be as much of an issue with pre-pay and multiple door boarding.

pwm94
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial Bus

Postby pwm94 » December 17th, 2015, 12:21 am

Press release from New Flyer on the 60' articulated busses for the A-Line

http://www.newflyer.com/index/metropoli ... ons-for-30


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