A Line - Arterial Rapid Bus

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
MSPtoMKE
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Arterial BRT

Postby MSPtoMKE » April 3rd, 2014, 12:59 pm

Looking through the MnDot 2014 construction list, I noticed this:
Hwy 51 (Snelling Avenue)
Location: South of W Ford Pkwy in St Paul to north of Hwy 36 in Roseville
Description: Bus stop bump outs for rapid bus service
Total Cost: $6 million
Date: Summer-fall 2014
Impact: Lane, sidewalk and shoulder closures
Benefit: Improved transit options

I assume that the stations themselves won't be installed that soon, but looks like the 84 will have bumpouts at many stops well before the A Line opens.
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twincitizen
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Arterial BRT

Postby twincitizen » April 11th, 2014, 10:03 am

New presentation posted: http://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/ ... tation.pdf

And the minutes from that meeting: http://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/ ... ummary.pdf

Maybe it's just because I'm a huge nerd, but I found the meeting minutes way more informative than the presentation (which is mostly old information). Linda Higgins should put a sock in it.

David Greene
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Arterial BRT

Postby David Greene » April 11th, 2014, 10:29 am

I still hate the color scheme.

I love the station cross-sections with the one guy running to the bus with his hand up!

No stop at Ford & Cleveland? Really?

Why can't we get nice fully-enclosed stations for this? Heaters with these open shelters are a joke.

C line should either directly connect to SWLRT Penn station and take 394 into downtown or it should go down Glenwood. It is a complete waste to duplicate Blue Line service on Olson.

Not sure why twincitizen is mad at Higgins.

mattaudio
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby mattaudio » April 11th, 2014, 10:38 am

Having the Finn and Kenneth stops instead of the Cleveland stop is probably good due to the current Cleveland intersection design. But Cleveland is an important transfer point and should really get far-side bus stops on each leg of the intersection. It's currently a pain because of the mess of buses that transfer at that corner. If I'm coming from the 46 and transfering to the 84, which stop do I stand at? I'd need to know which branch is coming. It's very discouraging for transit riders. This is why we need far side stops, especially at intersections where bus routes turn, branch, or intersect.

mattaudio
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby mattaudio » April 11th, 2014, 10:59 am

Also, they show a rendering of a station at Bloomington/Lake with a bumpout. If we're going to be adjusting curbs (a decade old), wouldn't now be the time to figure out how to do a 4 to 3 conversion with parking-buffered cycletracks?

Snelbian
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby Snelbian » April 11th, 2014, 11:30 am

The one line of questioning from Higgins I don't understand is the historic thing. Is it more in keeping with 1910's architecture to have flat-roofed bus stops from 2001 than curved roofs from 2014? What do historic designations and these bus stops have to do with each other in any conceivable way unless we start talking about building some sort of Craftsman-style bus stops that nobody would ever pay for?

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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby David Greene » April 11th, 2014, 1:55 pm

Snelbian wrote:The one line of questioning from Higgins I don't understand is the historic thing. Is it more in keeping with 1910's architecture to have flat-roofed bus stops from 2001 than curved roofs from 2014? What do historic designations and these bus stops have to do with each other in any conceivable way unless we start talking about building some sort of Craftsman-style bus stops that nobody would ever pay for?
I think it was probably in reference to Hiawatha's stations. Metro Transit seems to be dumping on them as "confusing" but I really love 'em. It's hard to be confused when there's a big honkin' platform there. It seems she's asking questions about how the stations will fit into the aesthetic context of an area.

With this aBRT I can see the advantages of a standardized design because it's being put in much more visually busy settings.

I see Higgins' questions as completely legit. There's no harm in asking questions and generating ideas.

mulad
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby mulad » May 5th, 2014, 12:36 pm

New A Line newsletter:

http://createsend.com/t/r-277394A4BDCD8 ... 23F30FEDED

There will be some open houses later this month, though only one will have an official presentation. Nice that they've learned to include nearby bus routes in the announcements:
Monday, May 12, 6:30 to 8 p.m. (presentation at 7 p.m.)
Hosted by Como Community Council, Hamline Midway Coalition, Union Park District Council, Macalester Groveland Community Council, Highland District Council
Hamline Midway Library, Meeting Room
1558 W. Minnehaha Avenue, St. Paul
Served by Routes 84 & 67

Monday, May 19, 5:30 to 7 p.m.
Listen and Learn Open House (no presentation)
Hosted by A Line Community Advisory Committee
Merriam Park Library, Meeting Room
1831 Marshall Avenue, St. Paul
Served by Route 21

Tuesday, May 20, 11:00 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.
Listen and Learn Open House (no presentation)
Hosted by A Line Community Advisory Committee and Highland Business Association
Chatterbox Pub
800 Cleveland Avenue S., St. Paul
Served by Routes 84, 23, 70, 46, 87

Tuesday, May 20, 5:30 to 7 p.m.
Listen and Learn Open House (no presentation)
Hosted by A Line Community Advisory Committee
Roseville Library, Community Program Room
2180 N. Hamline Avenue, Roseville
Served by Route 65

mulad
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby mulad » May 12th, 2014, 8:57 am

A reminder that there's an open house on this tonight. There will be a few more on Monday and Tuesday next week, but tonight's is the only one with an official presentation (planned for 7 pm).

David Greene
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby David Greene » May 12th, 2014, 8:24 pm

mulad wrote:A reminder that there's an open house on this tonight. There will be a few more on Monday and Tuesday next week, but tonight's is the only one with an official presentation (planned for 7 pm).
I'm glad I went. The speaker explained the benefits of far-side bus stops. Then the presentation materials showed that Metro Transit seems to be leaning toward a near-side stop on northbound Snelling at Grand, one of the busiest stops on the line. The reason? Four spaces of car storage on the far side. Apparently all of the parking lots in the area aren't enough for the businesses there and they just can't do without those four street spots.

I plan to write a comment that the transit experience of this line shouldn't be compromised for the sake of car storage. We're putting significant resources into this. The least we can do is make every stop the best transit experience it can be.

MSPtoMKE
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby MSPtoMKE » May 13th, 2014, 6:03 pm

Meeting Materials are posted here: https://www.metrotransit.org/snelling-brt-meetings

They include layouts of each planned station. Looks like Roselawn is recommended to be deferred, but an infill station at Snelling and Hoyt/Nebraska is recommended to be included. There are lots of options proposed for the northbound station at Grand, and all the ones that are being advanced include some compromise. Option B (farside 60' station, retaining 2 parking spots) is obviously best, but if the station must be moved to the nearside of the intersection, it better not be built at a substandard length.
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Anondson
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"A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby Anondson » June 5th, 2014, 5:09 pm


acs
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby acs » June 6th, 2014, 8:15 am

Oh great, so now we're going to use aBRT for TOD.

Tom H.
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby Tom H. » June 6th, 2014, 8:38 am

That may be useful once some development happens up there. However, if they want this line up there, the development there had better be transit-friendly (i.e. walkable), or else this is just throwing money away.

It would also be nice if the A-Line extension could have some stops tie in with the Northwestern and Bethel campuses along Snelling.

Tcmetro
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby Tcmetro » June 6th, 2014, 8:42 am

I would like to see the aBRT lines get dedicated lanes as roadway segments are reconstructed. Considering the width of both Ford Parkway and Snelling Ave, it would be really easy to build median bus lanes as part of any reconstruction.

Minnehahaha
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby Minnehahaha » June 6th, 2014, 9:49 pm

It's unfortunate that the A Line needs to spend so much time mucking about with off-ramps and mall traffic around Rosedale. Unless I've missed something, there is no real improvement over the current conditions that the 84 deals with. So if the line is extended to TCAAP, it seems like this area could be an even worse source of delays. As someone who has waited extended periods of time for the southbound 84, I often wonder how much of my wait can be attributed to masses of folks trying to get into the Rosedale parking lot so they can see the latest must-see romantic comedy Spider-zilla blockbuster.

Suburban Outcast
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby Suburban Outcast » June 7th, 2014, 3:17 am

I used to take the 87 from Rosedale to the U's Saint Paul Campus, and it would sometimes take up over 10 minutes just to get out of the Rosedale area (from Rosedale to past 36 on Fairview) due to how the transit station is set up. Whenever I was running late, I would just park across the street in Crossroads because I knew I had a few minutes extra til the bus would get out of the Rosedale parking lot.

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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby mulad » June 7th, 2014, 6:32 am

Yeah, the delay from the transit center makes for a big mess -- it's basically just as bad as the Red Line's dorking around at Cedar Grove. If people are really serious about extending the A Line to TCAAP, then a new station along the highway needs to be considered, and that basically triggers a whole re-evaluation of the interchange areas at MN-36 and County B2.

Here's one idea -- set up auxiliary roadways parallel to the highway that combine the ramps of the two interchanges, allowing the bus to use the shoulder lane for station stops. However, this requires widening the existing bridge a lot, and adding at least one elevator for the station in each direction. Here's a map:



However, something really should be done to make the Snelling corridor walkable/bikeable through here. The MN-36/Snelling cloverleaf should probably be replaced with a more compact interchange, like a dogbone, DDI, or other diamond variant. Redoing the interchange would also make it easier to someday build a highway BRT stop along MN-36 to allow transfers to/from the A Line.

twincitizen
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby twincitizen » June 9th, 2014, 6:33 am

Here's the final plan recommendations that will go to the Met Council's transportation committee, and full council for approval. Looks like NB Snelling & Grand and SB Snelling & Highland got the shaft from community/business opposition and will be getting undersized near-side stops. Lame.

http://www.metrocouncil.org/Council-Mee ... 81%29.aspx

RailBaronYarr
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Re: "A Line" Snelling Avenue Arterial BRT

Postby RailBaronYarr » June 9th, 2014, 8:01 am

I'm guessing the objection was mostly re: parking? How do the potential operational/platform size benefits not outweigh 3 spots when there are so many on side streets?


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