A Line - Arterial Rapid Bus

[fehler]

So, what's faster from Snelling/University to 46th street, A line or a Green-Blue transfer? And given that, which option will be used more often?

[Silophant]

The schedules show 16-17 minutes for the A Line, and 35 minutes for the Green/Blue. So, I guess it depends on how strong rail bias really is?

[mattaudio]

And how weak a round-the-end transfer is at Downtown East rather than a cross platform transfer?

[jebr]

A line is faster by about 10 minutes or so (plus whatever time is lost in the transfer from Green to Blue.) During the peak traffic time (PM rush on weekdays) it's 22 minutes from 46th St. to Snelling/University and roughly 35 minute travel time (including the transfer) from Green to Blue. If someone's already on the Green Line and needs to go south of 46th on the Blue Line, the transfer time makes it so that it's not really a savings to add the A Line transfer, but from Snelling/University the A line is faster.

As to which will be most used? I think along Snelling more people will opt for the A Line (I don't think the rail bias is that strong since there's still a line on a map and stations that look substantial) but people outside of the Snelling corridor will still opt for the transfer downtown (the second transfer kills it for people going south of 46th St., and the transfer from Green Line to A line does require crossing Snelling and half of University.)

[masstrlk67]

Huh, I had assumed that every stop would be a timepoint on the schedule a la light rail.

[mattaudio]

I had assumed that headways would be low enough for this service to be functionally "schedule-less."

[jebr]

How short of headways do we need before a service is functionally schedule-less?

[RailBaronYarr]

Depends on the person, but for me it's somewhere between 4 and 8 minutes. 10 minutes is a long time to stand at a station, even heated shelters in the ran/cold. It's not in the same league as 30, obviously, but I never just walk to a LRT station not knowing when the train will get there with 10 minute headways. I time it so I wait about 2-3 minutes.

[mattaudio]

Of course, real-time information at station locations would also help. "Do I have time to go across the street and buy a coffee?"

[Silophant]

10 min is scheduleless enough for me. I don't think I've ever looked up a Green Line schedule, except late at night when it's half an hour or more between trains.

[FISHMANPET]

As much as I'm annoyed when I walk out of my house or office and see the train just close enough that I'll miss it, I still don't look up schedules and just put up with the up to 10 minutes wait time.

[nate]

Interesting conversation. At 10 minute headways I make an attempt to leave home/work in time to get to the platform with a couple minutes to spare. But 10 minute headways make it very easy to remember the schedule....a westbound train leaves Central at times ending in 4, all day. If headways were 9 minutes, I would probably just leave without checking because the schedule wouldn't be so tidy.

[jebr]

Agreed, and that's one frustrating thing about the A line (the times aren't quite clock-face; they vary by a couple minutes throughout the day.) That being said, I'm pretty sure the understanding was that it would be 10 minutes throughout most of the day, so I'm not surprised that the frequency is 10 minutes (and especially for MSP, every-10-minute service is tough to beat.)

[SkyScraperKid]

WOW, I never look up the times for the blue or green trains unless it's after 10pm cause I forget when the last train goes. Other than that I never seen the need, the stations tell the time of the trains anyways. It's always warm enough, and has shelter. Though I'm never in much of a hurry. I usually have the time to wait, I guess if I was rushing to work I might understand why you guys might look up the schedule.

[jebr]

A few updates:

There are three events throughout the A Line corridor on Saturday, along with free rides Saturday through Monday. I'm hoping to get to all three, but I'm not sure whether I'll start at the main event or at the one in Roseville.

Also, Metro Transit uploaded a video on how to ride the A Line. A couple things I noted:
- A Line vending machines cannot make change. I'm rather surprised by this (since there is a coin return slot) and am a bit annoyed (it would make sense to at least return up to $1 in change, so if someone has $2 they can pay the $1.75 fare and get their quarter back.)
- The tickets look very different from the standard bus tickets or METRO TVM tickets. They look a lot more like parking meter receipts. I don't think this will be a big deal, but it is interesting (since for some reason in my mind I though the tickets would be the same format as the current tickets, just without the magstripe.) The expiration date and time are very clearly visible on the ticket, though, so drivers on connecting bus routes should be able to easily tell when a customer's fare expires.

[Silophant]

Really? The machines won't dispense change? I get it from a maintenance standpoint - keeping all those machines stocked would get complicated, especially in a future with lots of aBRT, but its not great from a customer service standpoint.

All the more reason to go to even dollar value fares, I suppose.

[SkyScraperKid]

Really? The machines won't dispense change? I get it from a maintenance standpoint - keeping all those machines stocked would get complicated, especially in a future with lots of aBRT, but its not great from a customer service standpoint.

All the more reason to go to even dollar value fares, I suppose.

YES! raise the rates on non-GOTO card members to $2 non-rush and $3 Rush & Express bus TODAY! problem solved!

[mulad]

That coin return problem is pretty strange. I mean, don't regular vending machines have coin mechanisms that accept incoming coins into a stack, so they can eject change from the bottom? That's more efficient than requiring exact change for every transaction, since Metro Transit's money handlers would only need to lug around enough coins to cover the difference between the number going in and the number being spit out.

Not having enough coins to properly pay a fare had probably been my #1 gripe about riding buses in the area, so I got my hands on a Go-To card as soon as I could after they became publicly available.

But that brings up another problem -- These machines is that they don't allow you refill a Go-To card. This isn't a big deal for me now, since I have mine linked to a credit card and it refills automatically, but I was really hoping the A Line stations would significantly expand the network of refill locations. Oh well, there are quite a few LRT stations now, and some grocery stores and other outlets let you do it in person. Online and over the phone works (I think -- the phone option may have disappeared recently), but there can be a delay up to 48 hours before those transactions go through properly.

[FISHMANPET]

A place to refill your Go-To card with cash is necessary for lower income people who may not have a credit card (or even internet access or sometimes maybe even phone access) to be able to use a credit card to refill over the phone or online.

I feel like we've had this discussion before, but it's really insane that the Arterial bus system isn't an opportunity to expand the places to let you refill a Go-To card.

[jebr]

The lack of a Go-To card refill option is a bit strange, but it's not quite as bad if you have a credit card and a smartphone. Each station has a regular Go-To card validator, just like at LRT stations, so refills should show up instantly on there. The phone option has been removed until fall. There's also a decent number of stops with a Go-To card vendor within walking distance (Rosedale, Cub Foods on the south side of Har Mar, Rainbow at Snelling/University along with the TVMs on the light rail platform, and probably a few others) which also helps, and if it saves $65k - $70k per TVM (I can't remember if it was that high or not,) that's an okay sacrifice. (Although maybe they could put a keypad on the machine and just link to the website so people can punch in their Go-To card number and refill it online at each TVM? Or are the TVMs without Internet access as of now?)

I do think the change issue is a relatively major detriment, though. I would get if it was severely limited, but offering no option for change is a large negative. Granted, it's not something being lost, but if there's a machine it'd be nice for someone to be able to put a couple bucks in and not lose a quarter (or 75 cents during rush hour!) just because they don't have exact change. In my experience, a lot of people still prefer using cash for small transactions (over a credit/debit card) and offering such a strong disincentive to cash seems odd. Maybe that extra mechanism cost too much as well, and maybe it's still worth it, but it's a surprising exclusion.