Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

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woofner
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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby woofner » June 14th, 2013, 2:19 pm

I made a map real quick of the historical routings of the Como Harriet line from the Historical Transit Routes geodata set on datafinder.org:

http://gettingaroundmpls.files.wordpres ... utings.jpg

I tried to symbolize the different route termini differently based on their last run date, but the data was a bit janky. The segment west of 394 has a 1950/54 end date in the dataset but the segment between 494 and 169 has a 1932 end date - anyone know which is correct? If so I'll update the map.

In Edina it ran on W 44th then on reserved ROW all the way to 5th Ave in Hopkins, where it joined Excelsior. You can sort of see where it was if you follow a line between 2nd & 3rd Sts and Spruce Rd.
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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby mister.shoes » June 14th, 2013, 2:25 pm

I know this entire discussion is a crazy "what if?" but I can't help but get excited about this line. The ROW is all there. Imagine this running from Hopkins to Uptown, a line in the Greenway from West Lake to the Blue Line, and a third on Nicollet from NE to Lake. What's that I see? The beginnings of a network?

</dream>
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woofner
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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby woofner » June 14th, 2013, 2:31 pm

To clarify, the reserved ROW between Hopkins and Edina is at least half built over with beige boxes.
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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby mister.shoes » June 14th, 2013, 2:38 pm

You're right of course. I got a little carried away with "all there" in my previous post. I spent a little time on the Hennepin Cty Property Information site inspecting all the little parcels. I was pleasantly surprised to see how much of the ROW was still in public hands, yet disappointed to see a good number of houses and apartments and other buildings plopped down in the way. Even if this line only got as far as France Ave, that'd be a huge win.
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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby mattaudio » June 14th, 2013, 2:43 pm

How long have you had that avatar?

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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby mister.shoes » June 14th, 2013, 2:44 pm

About 10 minutes :)
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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby mattaudio » June 14th, 2013, 2:46 pm

Image

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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby UptownSport » June 16th, 2013, 5:19 pm

Saw this today (before the rain) at Como Park and thought of you guys Image, so I snapped a pic!

Image

Perhaps in these types of threads we could post (even if we should know) who you'd contact to get some gov't interest in these types of projects.

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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby woofner » June 17th, 2013, 10:15 am

If you're talking about a streetcar line that runs between Uptown and Hopkins more or less along the same alignment as the Como-Harriet line, I'd think you'd need to contact the councilmembers in Minneapolis, Edina and Hopkins. Technically Hennepin County could do it but I'd say it's a long shot. Of course, the whole notion of a streetcar line more or less duplicating the Green Line extension with little or no redevelopment opportunities is not exactly a surefire deal in the first place.

I'd say the best place for a heritage streetcar tourist trolley would be from Nicollet Island to Dinkytown along Main St, contingent on whether a) the Merriam St bridge can handle streetcars (seems unlikely) and b) BNSF abandons enough of their yards south of Dinkytown. Linden Hills-Uptown would be ok too, but I'd bet it would need to cut east to Hennepin at 34th or 36th rather than follow the historic route exactly (my bet is that Minneapolitans prefer their streetcar suburb devoid of streetcars). In the latter case, contact Betsy Hodges (betsy.hodges@minnapolismn.gov), Meg Tuthill (meg.tuthill@minneapolismn.gov), or Lisa Bender (lisapbender@gmail.com). Any of the three might be interested in making a tourist trolley into one of those ideas candidates mention during campaigns so they can pretend they have vision and then never do anything about.
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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby twincitizen » June 17th, 2013, 11:33 pm

A different map, from 1913, well before the system had finished growing: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historic ... l-1913.jpg

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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby MSPtoMKE » June 18th, 2013, 12:37 am

Here's a map from 1917:
Image
Twin City Rapid Transit ~ 1917 by MSPdude, on Flickr

And one I made several years ago:
Image
Twin City Lines by MSPdude, on Flickr
My flickr photos.

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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby lordmoke » October 8th, 2013, 9:36 am

The Streetcar Museum has filed an application for an addition to the car shed to accommodate a new car, Winona 10:
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/meeting ... S1P-115187

Hooray!

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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby MNdible » October 8th, 2013, 10:03 am

What would it take to extend this line the couple of blocks to "downtown" Linden Hills? Seems like it makes more sense as a terminal location.

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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby twincitizen » October 8th, 2013, 10:32 am

Believe it or not, that topic comes up in the Linden Hills Small Area Plan, which you can comment on right now!

The 45-day review and comment period for the Linden Hills Small Area Plan ends October 21st. Below are links to the executive summary and the full plan document. Please take the time to review the plan.

Executive Summary

Full Small Area Plan Document

Submit comments directly to Brian Schaffer at CPED: Brian.schaffer@minneapolismn.gov

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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby mulad » October 8th, 2013, 11:34 am

As fun as it would be to have service run through the car barn, I think they'd need to get a new location for that at least -- perhaps just south of the curve 400-500 feet southwest of the current spot? I'm not sure what the terrain is like there. Most of the old right-of-way is clear of obstacles, though there may be a garage or two that would have to be removed. I think they can sneak past if it's only single-track (which it almost certainly would be).

Which node do you consider to be "downtown" Linden Hills? I typically think of the stuff along Sheridan, but it might be good to extend it to 44th and France. There are some big parking lots in that area which could work for a car barn too -- perhaps wedge it into the middle of the block bounded by 44th, France, Sunnyside, and Curve?

I think the museum did a rehab of their existing track several years ago which was in the $700,000 to $1 million range. Getting to France Ave would probably cost several million at least. But hey, probably cheaper than a proper Cedar Grove BRT station?

And a random note: Judging by the much larger ranch-style homes along 44th west of France, I guess the old line had a dedicated right-of-way just south of 44th.

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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby MNdible » October 8th, 2013, 11:59 am

While I'd love to see it extended to 44th and France, in my mind I was thinking just to Sheridan would be more achievable and provide the biggest bang for the buck.

I partially raised the question because, if they're going to be doing more work on the carbarn now, it might make sense to start planning for this modest extension.

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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby David Greene » October 8th, 2013, 2:11 pm

MNdible wrote:While I'd love to see it extended to 44th and France, in my mind I was thinking just to Sheridan would be more achievable and provide the biggest bang for the buck.
This is a great idea. Eventually I'd love to see service restored to at least Uptown station. Most if not all of the historic right-of-way is clear up to that point. 'Twould be fun to ride in the funky alley west of Irving again! Imagine this network: SW LRT-Midtown-Como Harriet-Nicollet-Hiawatha.

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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby woofner » October 8th, 2013, 2:21 pm

Not that any of this will come to pass anyway, but if this is going to be a tourist trolly, shouldn't it go up the parkway rather than on the historic route? How many tourists prefer a vague sense of historicity over a lake view?
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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby lordmoke » October 8th, 2013, 2:30 pm

woofner wrote:Not that any of this will come to pass anyway, but if this is going to be a tourist trolly, shouldn't it go up the parkway rather than on the historic route? How many tourists prefer a vague sense of historicity over a lake view?
I assume that in order to maintain its NRHP status it would have to stick at least somewhat close to the original ROW, though I could be wrong.

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Re: Como-Harriet Streetcar Line

Postby mulad » October 8th, 2013, 3:19 pm

I'm split on whether I want to see this become a real transit link or not. Well no, I'd love to see it become a real transit link, but it's a prime example of what's (potentially) easy over what would have the biggest benefit. Still, it's far from a bad idea -- I could see it following the route of the 6 down to Southdale, and extending the other way to Uptown. Would building the suburban end of the line first induce interest in getting the service built into downtown Minneapolis? Heck, the distance from France & 44th to the Uptown transit center is just about the same as the distance from Uptown to the downtown riverfront.

But hundred-year-old streetcars aren't really what we want for service between Uptown and Downtown. There are some places that mingle historic and modern equipment, though there are issues with vehicle clearance and all that (I'm not sure how bad things really are are between the old TCRT equipment and LRT or modern streetcar vehicles, though).


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