Best/Worst Retail Centers for bikes/peds?

[OPAFiets1]

What do you think are the best and worst retail centers or city centers in the Twin Cities for pedestrians and people on bikes? Any with very promising plans?

[seanrichardryan]

Southtown is awful for all of the above.

[mattaudio]

I don't see much of a point in trying to figure out the worst in terms of function, since nearly all "retail centers" that are not organic commercial nodes are hostile to walkers/bikers.

I would say the worst of the worst are those that are faux new urban, where there was actually a thought by someone that the development would not be exclusively the domain of the car, and they still failed. That makes some worse.
http://goo.gl/maps/rztfu

[FISHMANPET]

Woodbury Lakes makes me angry every time I drive by it.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=44.946622,- ... 4&t=h&z=18

In the same vein as mattaudio, I really hate the places the emulate a traditional urban form in a completely suburban environment. Somebody said to themselves "yes, this is an aesthetic that is pleasing to customers" and couldn't quite put their finger on why that was, so they dumped it next to a freeway interchange with 1000 parking spaces. I feel like if the people designing, financing, building, and operating these kinds of places just stepped back and thought for a few minutes the light bulb might come on and they'd see what's attractive about a walkable space.

[OPAFiets1]

Matt, I somewhat agree, although I'd think that there are some that are much worse than average. But yes, more importantly, what centers are good or relatively good? What are the best examples in the Twin Cities?

[Gregory]

Riverdale

[mulad]

I'm trying to think of places where I've actually bought stuff... The Mall of America came out as the winner in a competition we had for the best retail center of 2012 on streets.mn. It has a crappy pedestrian environment outside, but parts of the inside are a decent simulations of what would be desirable in a real outdoor space. If the huge parking structures could be torn down and the site could be ringed with dense housing and offices, it'd be quite the place. I'll also note that the current MOA consumes almost exactly as much land as any other regional shopping mall (Eden Prairie Center, Southdale, Rosedale, etc.) -- it's just stacked taller and fills out more of the site.

For neighborhood retail, I guess I'd have to say that Grand Avenue in St. Paul has always seemed nice to me. Never bought anything there other than food, though. Dinkytown could be a great spot for more retail with all of its foot traffic, though it's mostly dominated by restaurants/bars as well. Few businesses are able to understand the concept that school lets out over summer and at Christmas, though...

[at40man]

Woodbury Lakes makes me angry every time I drive by it.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=44.946622,- ... 4&t=h&z=18

In the same vein as mattaudio, I really hate the places the emulate a traditional urban form in a completely suburban environment. Somebody said to themselves "yes, this is an aesthetic that is pleasing to customers" and couldn't quite put their finger on why that was, so they dumped it next to a freeway interchange with 1000 parking spaces. I feel like if the people designing, financing, building, and operating these kinds of places just stepped back and thought for a few minutes the light bulb might come on and they'd see what's attractive about a walkable space.

Oooof I also dislike these places. Maple Grove "Shoppes" at Arbor Lake / Woodbury Tamarack "Village" / Woodbury "Lakes" / St Louis Park "West End" drive me crazy.

Sometimes Disney gets lambasted by elitists for their recreations of "Main Street USA" at the turn of the century... but the difference is that Walt Disney was fascinated with urban planning and had an eye for extreme detail which show in the buildings. By comparison, these so-called "lifestyle centers" lare filled with bland architecture. And who is really fooled into thinking that a small town setting would have a Victoria's Secret and Best Buy...?

[mulad]

I found the "Main Street" portion of Arbor Lakes to be pretty decent, though a bit weird with the 1.5-story structures (some of which actually seem to use the upper story, but most not). The street is narrow enough that it actually seems to get cars to slow down and pedestrians were able to cross pretty easily when I visited. There are other shops behind the Main Street structures that I never bothered visiting -- pretty standard suburban big-box layouts.

I find it weird that the "Shoppes at Arbor Lakes" area is newer than the Main Street segment, since that feels less well thought out than Main Street. Then there's the "Fountains at Arbor Lakes" area to the east of "Shoppes", and that has a really crummy pedestrian environment. So as a whole, the Arbor Lakes project seems to be regressing over time...

[orangevening]

In my opinion either Block E, City Center or Gaviidae Commons could be tore down for a city square.

[mplsjaromir]

In my opinion either Block E, City Center or Gaviidae Commons could be tore down for a city square.

They are easily accessible by bikes and pedestrians.

[blobs]

Southtown is awful for all of the above.

That place grinds my gears. In fact the whole city of Bloomington should be razed and start over.

[Nick]

Dark horse candidate: The strip mall mess on the northwest side of Lake Calhoun. Walking, biking, and driving through that area is unpleasant. It's unfortunate when you have developments that just sorta missed the cut-off design wise. The Whole Foods strip mall is less than 15 years old...if it'd been built five years later, maybe they wouldn't have done that the way they did.

[MNdible]

That's a good one, although the Lake Street viaduct and the rail corridor through there makes it difficult to do something that's really tied in to the neighborhood. Also, there must have been some weird stuff going on with that development in terms of property ownership -- there are a few existing buildings that remained that I can't imagine they would have left in place if they'd had a choice.

[orangevening]

In my opinion either Block E, City Center or Gaviidae Commons could be tore down for a city square.

They are easily accessible by bikes and pedestrians.

Sorry, forgot the point of the thread.

[PhilmerPhil]

Yea that whole Calhoun Commons area sucks for everyone. The area is far too congested to make any meaningful improvements for single occupant vehicular traffic, so that seems like a lost cause. However, there are mountains of potential to make it a bikeable and walkable area (of course at the expense of the already terrible conditions for cars, much of which is probably due to induced demand from overbuilt roads and car infrastructure here). Putting in some cycle tracks and other bike/ped facilities would make the area hospitable to a huge segment of customers. Remember, this area is surrounded by trails and lakes, likely some of the highest pedestrian/bike traveled parts of the state.