Rush Line Corridor BRT

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
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Tiller
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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby Tiller » January 5th, 2016, 3:14 am

Ramsey County is asking for $4 million of bonding this session for Riverview/Rush pre-design work ($2 million each).
http://www.twincities.com/politics/ci_2 ... -wish-list

There are also meetings planned for both respective corridors this month (a friendly reminder)(the soonest one is next Monday for Riverview at the Union Depot (4-6pm))
http://www.rushline.org/
http://riverviewcorridor.com/
But the authority has allocated less money for corridor development in 2016 – $10,000 compared with $31,000 for the Rush Line Corridor project.

The rail authority is considering withdrawing from the Rush Line Corridor Task Force and a vote to do so was originally scheduled for the Dec. 15 meeting, but Look took it off the agenda for further consideration.

He anticipated the issue will be back before the rail authority for a decision at its January 2016 meeting, Look said.
http://abcnewspapers.com/2016/01/02/rai ... s-in-2016/

Sounds like Anoka wants to pull out of the "rushline task force" now that I-35E BRT is off the table.

twincitizen
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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby twincitizen » January 7th, 2016, 12:35 pm

That seems like a completely appropriate move on their part, now that the routes being considered wouldn't even come close to Anoka County.
Once (assuming) the Forest Lake BRT option is dropped, leaving only White Bear as a terminus, I would assume that Washington, Chisago, and Pine Counties will all withdraw as well, leaving this as a pure Ramsey County project, which is what it should have been all along.

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby masstrlk67 » January 7th, 2016, 1:16 pm

Is there some kind of advantage to bringing all those partners in from the get-go just to have them drop out as the scope gets narrowed? I don't think the other planned lines in the region started out so huge, except maybe Gateway?

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Tiller
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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby Tiller » January 7th, 2016, 2:00 pm

masstrlk67 wrote:Is there some kind of advantage to bringing all those partners in from the get-go just to have them drop out as the scope gets narrowed? I don't think the other planned lines in the region started out so huge, except maybe Gateway?
I'm not entirely sure, but it may be necessary for them to remain compliant with federal rules (so they can get dem federal matching funds).

When studying X corridor, they have to "look at" every option even if they will dismiss it (BRT/DMUs along the rail ROW? Really?). That, in the case of Rush and Gateway, (I guess) included Commuter Rail that went waay out there.
(or something like that)

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby at40man » January 7th, 2016, 10:00 pm

Some lively conversation going on at my local NextDoor page on this topic.
I know people in the community who are certainly concerned about the possibility of the Rush Line coming through the neighborhood and it not being something they want or believe is good for the community. But it is good to keep in mind there are others in the Frost Lake community who would see this as a good opportunity for economic development, a great chance to meet transportation needs, and a means to help revitalize our community.
it is less than 100' from my back door.

The fact that it is an old railroad bed doesn't seem to be relevant since there have been no trains through there for decades.
I'm glad to see there is discussion on this but where some of us live on the trail there is no buffer. No trees to block anything plus it could run right behind our property lines. This trail is heavily used & there is an elementary school that buts right up to the trail. I would worry about kid, pets & everyone that uses this trail & the Gateway trail that crosses the Vento trail. Plus keep in mind most of the homes along the northern Maplewood end of the trail were built long after trains were long gone from that line.
I believe that there is no economic benefit for anyone if it's on the trail whereas WB Ave or 61 make much more sense to benefit business & residents. No one wants this in their frontor back yard & you cannot convince me that property values in these residential areas will rise. In urban areas where people may not have cars, then maybe, but not in quiet suburban locations with a beautiful trail. I hope everyone that is able will attend or do research about this. Thank you.
My own post in response:

When I was looking at homes in the area, I purposefully wanted to be as close to the Vento & Gateway intersection as possible (I ideally wanted to be adjacent, but nothing was available) -- I am a bike commuter and while I like my car I would rather hop on a train or bike to get most places for my daily errands. I was personally more concerned about living on White Bear Avenue than about having a train in my backyard...

I have a hard time seeing how replicating the problems of the Green Line in an even narrower corridor is even a feasible option. How exactly would LRT down White Bear Ave be safer than along the railway ROW? And US Hwy 61 is a hostile road to pedestrians who would need to access stations and businesses, so I don't see how that is any safer than the existing railway ROW.

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby Vagueperson » January 8th, 2016, 10:33 pm

As I've said all along, most of the people I know in Payne Phalen want this to be in our FRONT YARD, not in our BACK YARD.
Using the railroad ROW along Phalen Blvd and through Swede Hollow would make it hard to serve commercial areas at Arcade St, or anywhere along Payne Ave. I don't see how using the railroad ROW north of Maryland Ave really serves any sizable portion of St. Paul residents who really want improved transit service. I would much rather take the train to White Bear Ave commercial areas, which have a lot of potential for development, than through people's backyards. How to make it fit I don't exactly know.

Regarding the large scope of the original project, I have the impression that the planners have had an "all in" policy on this project. The so called "downtown" alignments really include just about everything, and it seems like they wanted to offend nobody by considering every idea, no matter how unreasonable.

With the Red Rock corridor now planning to share St. Paul stops with the Gateway Corridor, would those stops have buses then every 5 minutes? It appears that Metro State will be well covered by transit access, and I'd like to see the Rush Line serve a different route into downtown.

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby intercomnut » January 9th, 2016, 12:19 am

Vagueperson wrote: With the Red Rock corridor now planning to share St. Paul stops with the Gateway Corridor, would those stops have buses then every 5 minutes? It appears that Metro State will be well covered by transit access, and I'd like to see the Rush Line serve a different route into downtown.
Sorry to nitpick, but Gateway will only run every 10 minutes during rush hour and will go every 20-30 mins at other times. And I'd imagine Red Rock will be about the same, if not worse with the new alignment. So Metro State will be well served, but I just people to stop throwing around the "every 5 minute" figure.

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby Vagueperson » January 9th, 2016, 7:15 am

Thanks for the clarification. I put it as a question because I wasn't sure.

intercomnut
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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby intercomnut » January 9th, 2016, 11:15 am

Vagueperson wrote:Thanks for the clarification. I put it as a question because I wasn't sure.
Clearly my reading comprehension skills aren't the best.

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Tiller
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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby Tiller » January 21st, 2016, 8:41 pm

Some new info/maps/stuff is on the site now. http://www.rushline.org/

the following maps are from this pdf:
http://media.wix.com/ugd/6977a0_93036b5 ... 8cea29.pdf

https://imgur.com/0k35orR
Image

https://imgur.com/8ECMhxm
Image

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby mamundsen » January 22nd, 2016, 9:35 am

The pdf mentions the following end of a timeline:

May – July 2016
Draft and finalize Locally Preferred Alternative

Is this realistic goal? Will we have a set route sometime this summer?

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Tiller
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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby Tiller » January 22nd, 2016, 2:39 pm

I guess? It is roughly half a year away still.

I do love the look of that blue route.

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby mister.shoes » January 22nd, 2016, 3:41 pm

As a member of the "front of the Depot" crowd, that "Downtown routing and connection to Union Depot to be determined" better include some more alternatives.
The problem with being an introvert online is that no one knows you're just hanging out and listening.

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby Tiller » January 23rd, 2016, 4:23 pm

Considering whatever bridge engineering spaghetti is happening with Riverview, and that this is now entering the "Tier 2 detailed evaluation", I guess Rush (wow such speed) has now jumped ahead of Riverview?

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby masstrlk67 » January 25th, 2016, 3:46 pm

I think Rush was actually ahead of Riverview before the B Line aBRT fiasco moved Riverview front and center for Ramsey County. Which makes it kind of ironic that aBRT is now a serious option for Rush Line.

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby Vagueperson » January 25th, 2016, 9:44 pm

Metro Transit is already planning to build an aBRT line that follows this approximate route up to the Maplewood Mall. I'm hoping we can get both the aBRT AND a Rush Line LRT, but if so I'm not sure where they should both go north of Maryland Ave. LRT on RCRRA right of way and aBRT on White Bear Ave?

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby twincitizen » January 26th, 2016, 9:12 am

In the near term, they're actually just extending the Route 54 eastward (and not all the way to Maplewood Mall, maybe Maryland/WB?). There are no concrete plans to build out aBRT yet. That project would be held up in the exact same limbo as the B-Line until the Alternatives Analysis is complete.

Unless somehow, some way, Riverview/Rush get built out as a DMU train exclusively running on existing rail ROW (and completely bypassing most of the current ridership in the corridor), I don't see a parallel investment in aBRT happening in either corridor.

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby Vagueperson » January 26th, 2016, 2:18 pm

I guess I was under the mistaken assumption that they were ready to pop out a new aBRT line every year for the near future and that it was a separate planning process than these larger/longer commuter lines.

All these plans heavily overlap, though, as East 7th street will be the future location of automobile traffic, bike lanes, aBRT, streetcars, and light rail (am I missing something?).

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby Vagueperson » January 26th, 2016, 9:22 pm

At the "downtown stakeholders" meeting tonight, they explained that LRT on East 7th would be mixed with traffic, as it would also be on White Bear Ave.
Some advocated for a pedestrian bridge to the south if a station were placed at Cayuga and Phalen Blvd.
Many advocated for the swing around Mt. Airy.

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Re: Rush Line Corridor (Alternatives Analysis)

Postby acs » January 26th, 2016, 9:34 pm

So it's not LRT then. Ok. Kill this and replace with a nice bus, because nobody including the met council wants to fund a $1 billion streetcar.


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