MN Highway 610

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
LyndaleHoosier
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby LyndaleHoosier » January 23rd, 2014, 9:41 am

As the connection of MN 610 to 94 is completed over the next few years, do you think it will finally push the need to get the traffic signals off of MN 252?? It would seem odd to me that if folks use Mn 610 to MN 252 to 94 as a bit of a bypass of 694 that the at-grade crossing should be removed on MN 252.

Mdcastle
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby Mdcastle » January 23rd, 2014, 5:58 pm

MN 252 is another example next to US 169 in Bloomington as city interference preventing Mn/DOT from doing the job right in the first place. Brooklyn Park or Brooklyn Center, I can't remember which, insisted on an at-grade highway rather than a freeway so they could have commercial development at the intersections, just like Eden Prairie wanted to slow down traffic on US 169. In both cases the cities have realized the error of their ways, but US 169 got fixed and MN 252 didn't. Converting it to a freeway was on Mn/DOTs radar for a while, but got dropped when a lot of high dollar projects were re-evaluated to reduce the scope do to no possible way to pay for them all a few years ago. There's usually some pork-barrel bills in the legislature every year directing Mn/DOT to add lanes, but don't look for anything major on MN 252 unless one of the Brooklyns and/or Hennepin county want to push it and find popup funding for it.

spearson
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby spearson » January 24th, 2014, 12:59 pm

It'll be interesting to see how the completion of 610 affects traffic on 252. If anything I bet we see them bandage the problem for a decade or more by completing the expansion to three lanes the entire way in both directions. It's so mind boggling that the northbound side starts at three lanes, drops to two lanes for two stop lights, and then expands back to three..

Mdcastle
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby Mdcastle » February 5th, 2014, 10:59 pm

I don't think it will affect traffic that much. I can't think of a reason you would drive on both the new section of MN 610 and MN 252.

crizmois
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby crizmois » April 3rd, 2014, 10:33 am

Here is the design for the 610 extension.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projec ... layout.pdf

Looks like Home Depot/Haskells/Target is going to get some great visibility from the Highway!

mattaudio
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby mattaudio » April 7th, 2014, 12:31 pm

I think it was planned that way. That entire area (including one of Maple Grove's four faux New Urbanist main streets) is right up against the ROW for 610 that is visible from satellite.

twincitizen
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby twincitizen » April 8th, 2014, 12:39 pm

It's borderline comical that this new highway extension to Sprawlville USA gets funded/built before redoing the 35W/494 interchange. Same goes for the Stillwater bridge. Even auto-dependent freedom-loving Americans (TM) in the second-ring suburbs should be fighting against outer belt freeway extensions when we haven't even modernized the first beltway yet, much of it now 50 years old.

mattaudio
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby mattaudio » April 8th, 2014, 12:46 pm

Agreed. I'd rather see expansion closer to the core, where people who *don't* live in the exurbs will get to enjoy temporary capacity relief along with the people who *do* drive inside the loop from far away.

Obvious contenders include 35W/494 as you note, six-lane 62 between 169 and 100, 494 expansion in Plymouth (whoa, I said it), I-94 improvements between downtowns, and maybe some work along 36. Even if we're going to continue growing highway capacity, I think we could get more bang for our buck instead of new freeway lanes on the fringe that exacerbate pain points closer to the core.

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mister.shoes
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby mister.shoes » April 8th, 2014, 12:50 pm

But...growth!
The problem with being an introvert online is that no one knows you're just hanging out and listening.

Mdcastle
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby Mdcastle » April 9th, 2014, 6:52 am

Speaking as a pro-car person in the inner ring suburbs, I support both of these projects even though there of little benefit to me, But it is interesting that the figure I use for the opportunity cost of the bridge to Minnesota- I use 55% of the middle of the estimates, or $343 Million, would pay for the original full, preferred build of the I-35W and I-494 interchange ($250 million a few years ago) with enough left over for new lanes where I-94 is approaching capacity near the I-694-I-494 interchange to accommodate the displaced cars and to convert the old bridge into a bicycle crossing. MN 610 is a different story since it's a pop-up project- a special pot of money that presumably wouldn't be available for whatever the engineers (as opposed to politicians) wanted to spend it on.

Similarly, right now work is going to start on the US 10 / Armstrong interchange. I question the priorities there as I think Fairoak / Thurston should be done first, or even starting to build interchanges on MN 252 instead, but the Armstrong issue isn't going to go away, so if there's money and political will to get that one done now, I guess so be it.

mamundsen
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby mamundsen » April 9th, 2014, 8:56 am

Does the fact that the 610 project has more easily obtainable land factor into this pop up project at all? For that matter, have they sat on the land for a while or are they buying it now? I don't know the history.

mattaudio
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby mattaudio » April 9th, 2014, 9:16 am

IIRC, the ROW has been preserved since the dawn of development in that area (except for the development along CR 81 that was moved with the last phase a few years ago).

Often the line by politicians is that "these projects have been on the table for decades." US 212 freeway was justified this same way by Carol Molnau. There are hundreds of project plans sitting on shelves, but there's usually a good reason if the politicians haven't funded it for decades... it wasn't a justified expense at the time. This is the same reason why the "shovel ready" ARRA projects were such a lost opportunity -- while the program was justified, we used the money to build the projects with the worst returns, the ones which had be plans sitting on shelves.

I think there's a lot of common ground for pro-car/pro-horizontal-growth interests and urban interests -- invest in our core system before we discuss expanding it outward. A 35W/494 project would not only benefit Richfield and Bloomington, but plenty of car commuters from Minneapolis, St. Paul, and other suburbs. A 610 freeway just enriches land speculators.

mamundsen
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby mamundsen » April 9th, 2014, 9:18 am

Thanks for the quick answer.

I see finishing 610 to connect with 94, similar to connecting the North Star line to St Cloud. It is going to make the whole thing better and more used.

mattaudio
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby mattaudio » April 9th, 2014, 9:29 am

Normally, yes this would be true. But I don't think that's the case here because of where the freeways are. 610 will nominally take some pressure off of 94 and 10 for folks from Brooklyn Park and east of the Mississippi who are heading towards Rogers/St. Cloud. It will also take some pressure off of 94 for commuters heading from Brooklyn Park and points west/north heading to St. Paul or the eastern suburbs. Yet the stoplights on 252 already make the corridor a pain for folks commuting to Mpls or the western suburbs via 94. And connecting further east to Hwy 10, there are choke points near 35W that are just as bad as any choke points on 694.

This same commuter constituency would have been better served with the same money if it was used to grade separate 252 between 94 and 610. But that wouldn't have served the land speculator and developer constituency.

transportationist
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby transportationist » April 9th, 2014, 1:19 pm

Has anyone identified who the actual beneficiary land-owners are? This would be interesting.

mattaudio
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby mattaudio » April 23rd, 2014, 9:06 am

I don't want to start a new thread for a random question, but this is immediately adjacent to 610.
Anyone know when the half interchange at 169 and 93rd Ave N was put in?

lordmoke
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby lordmoke » April 23rd, 2014, 9:13 am

I don't want to start a new thread for a random question, but this is immediately adjacent to 610.
Anyone know when the half interchange at 169 and 93rd Ave N was put in?
I believe it was finished last summer.

StoJa9

Re: Hwy 610

Postby StoJa9 » April 23rd, 2014, 10:34 pm

I've lived in Minneapolis for 13 years and last week was the first time I ever drove on 610. Had to drive my girlfriend to Coon Rapids and wow...I didn't know it was so big (that's NOT what she said 8-) ;) ). Never had a reason to drive up there and always thought it was a small 4-lane state highway. That whole 10/610 area really surprised me.

jebr
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Re: Hwy 610

Postby jebr » May 18th, 2014, 6:51 pm

The one advantage (as an outstate person) is that it makes it a lot simpler to get to a frequent park-and-ride (either Foley Blvd. or the Northtown Mall.) Most of the other ones in the northwest metro only are used around peak periods, and have little to no midday or weekend service.

Yes, I know there is the Northstar and there's probably a few other options I'm missing, but the Northstar is nowhere near frequent enough (unless it's scheduled around your event) and having the 10 bus going to Northtown gives a LOT of service options.

Anondson
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Re: MN Highway 610

Postby Anondson » August 8th, 2014, 8:05 pm

Bid came in $20M cheaper than budgeted.

http://finance-commerce.com/2014/08/hwy ... er-budget/


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