26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby RailBaronYarr » November 26th, 2013, 9:24 am

What was the excuse before mass adoption of texting (ca. 2005? 2007?)? Texting is just a symptom of the issue: a road design that allows drivers to feel complacent because there is no reason to pay attention (ie we've removed as many conflict points and things besides other cars that would make them attentive). To account for this, lanes are 11-12' wide so people can slightly swerve without hitting the car next to them or jumping the curb (although woofner's link clearly shows that this still happens quite often).

Can we acknowledge that Wedgeguy's description of experiences crossing 26th and 28th would be completely unacceptable to the general population if he were in a car instead of on foot? Sometimes waiting 1-2 minutes to cross the street? When you're making a quick walk to the store/bus stop/etc, 1-2 minutes is a huge % of trip time (and could easily be the difference in adding another 7-10 minutes to a journey if making a connection to transit, something more likely as we invest in the MIdtown corridor).

I'm not sure what the answer is for these 2 streets. I don't know that being one-way is a reason in and of itself for fast/unsafe driving. I've been on many very pleasant one-ways with 2 lanes in European cities. I don't know that this pair makes sense for a 6' one-way cycle track given the Greenway 1-3blocks away with most commercial destinations another block beyond that. But it's not safe right now for users, including people in cars, because of its design.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby David Greene » November 26th, 2013, 9:35 am

Wedgeguy wrote:That is what we are taught in driver's ed, but that is not what happening in the real world, 26th or a side street. I will never assume a car will stop for me if I'm in the crosswalk and they are less than a half a block away.
And that is why the streets are unsafe. You just contradicted yourself.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby Wedgeguy » November 26th, 2013, 9:44 am

The contradiction is, I know enough to watch out for those that don't follow the rules. We can get rid of streets, but then what would buses run on. How would goods get to your grocery store, Walgreens, Etc. I'm just sayin
Last edited by Wedgeguy on November 26th, 2013, 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby PhilmerPhil » November 26th, 2013, 9:46 am

Wedgeguy, check your inbox.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby go4guy » November 26th, 2013, 12:22 pm

I take 26th and 28th to and from Wells Fargo HM for lunch when I go to Uptown. The lights are timed, making it a quick trip. I never take Lake because that road is a mess. Constantly hitting lights, or getting caught behind someone turning as there are no turning lanes, not even for right hand turns. So yes, 26th and 28th are a HUGE improvement over Lake in my opinion.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby UptownSport » December 1st, 2013, 5:03 pm

They are super-efficient. I wonder if they could be widened for better Uptown access, and lights timed to 35+MPH so they're even more efficient.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby ECtransplant » December 1st, 2013, 5:45 pm

If by widened, you mean narrowed, yes

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby Anondson » December 1st, 2013, 6:03 pm

Maybe the gurus who retimed downtown's lights that sped up traffic can bring their brains and tools to 26th/28th between Hiawatha and Hennepin. Maybe even a larger timing project including Lake and 31st.

A good friend of mine works for the company that was involved with Bloomberg's adding of bike lanes in Manhattan. Results stunned the country when data showed travel times were faster with the bike lanes. He pointed out that while the bike lanes were added, the streets had also been retimed. Which news reports never mentioned.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby David Greene » December 16th, 2013, 12:55 pm

I've been thinking some more about the return of 26th and 28th to one-way operation. I would argue they primarily serve Minneapolis residents (yes, yes, Allina) and with the Midtown Corridor, their function of moving residents across South Minneapolis is reduced. I would love to see two-way operation combined with parking on both sides of the street and widening of sidewalks and boulevards through Phillips.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby danie123182 » January 4th, 2014, 3:07 am

I think one of the main reason for these streets being two way are the hospitals.

Putting that aside however my Idea would be to:

Return 26th to two way traffic.

Leave 28th street one way, but reverse it's direction to west bound

Change 31st street to one way going east bound.

This makes these roads viable alternatives to lake Street which would relieve congestion on lake street significantly clearing up one of the worst bottlenecks in the city which would create less pollution in the entire corridor.

It would also clear up the lagoon/lake split bottleneck area.

28th, lake, and 31st all go into uptown.

There is the potential for traffic volumes on Hennepin between lagoon and 31st increasing to unacceptable levels as a result of this however and that should be studied.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby blobs » January 7th, 2014, 11:57 am

The geography of Philips needs improvement. Basically it's bound on all sides by freeways and noise walls. Hospital in the middle (nothing wrong with that) but with 26th and 28th as busy 3-lane one ways. Nobody will want residential property on a busy 3 lane, bringing down the neighborhood. And then Lake street. Lake street desperately needs a 4 -> 3 conversion. Look at Franklin. That is a 3 lane for some of it and works much nicer than Lake. Philips needs to become a destination not a place to drive through. My 2 cents.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby MNdible » January 7th, 2014, 12:04 pm

blobs wrote:Lake street desperately needs a 4 -> 3 conversion. Look at Franklin. That is a 3 lane for some of it and works much nicer than Lake.
The fact that you don't like a street doesn't necessarily make it a good candidate for a 4 -> 3 conversion. Just because it worked on one street doesn't necessarily mean it will work somewhere else. Franklin Avenue is not the same as Lake Street.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby mattaudio » January 7th, 2014, 12:06 pm

Does someone have institutional memory to share about why a 4 lane profile was chosen over a 3 lane section?

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby woofner » January 7th, 2014, 12:21 pm

AADT. Hennepin County predicted that the existing average daily 22,000 vehicles in Midtown would overwhelm a 3-lane configuration. At the time they were resistant to 3-lane configs over 12k or something ridiculously low like that, which is too bad because east of Hiawatha a 3 lane would probably work fine. In Midtown I think they're probably right, or else a lot of traffic would get diverted to 26/28 or 31st.
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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby talindsay » January 7th, 2014, 4:52 pm

I agree that Franklin works very well now and that some 3-lane conversions have worked better than I would have expected (Lyndale comes to mind) but between Lyndale and Cedar I can't imagine that Lake Street traffic would be conducive to such a conversion. East of Cedar it would be fine, but the volumes in Midtown would really reduce quality of service for much of the day. Even some lower-volume streets don't work especially well in three-lane form: Riverside, for example, is horrible from Franklin to 23rd. I suppose with very carefully constructed intersection treatments Lake could be made to work, but I'm not sure much would be gained. Cycling along Lake might improve a little, but with the Greenway so near that doesn't seem much of a benefit.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby PhilmerPhil » February 7th, 2014, 8:30 am

Alondra Cano asked her Facebook friends what they thought about a 2-way conversion: https://www.facebook.com/alondrabikes/p ... 7931179040

Lot's of "No way! It's the best drive across town fast!" responses.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby min-chi-cbus » February 7th, 2014, 2:54 pm

It's funny because my buddy from Austin when I'm mpls remarked how narrow most of the streets were and wondered if there were any major thoroughfares (for cars). Different strokes, huh?

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby talindsay » February 8th, 2014, 7:06 pm

min-chi-cbus wrote:It's funny because my buddy from Austin when I'm mpls remarked how narrow most of the streets were and wondered if there were any major thoroughfares (for cars). Different strokes, huh?
And now there's one more reason not to move to Austin, despite it being the most tolerable city in Texas.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby exiled_antipodean » February 10th, 2014, 10:31 am

When I visited Austin I was not impressed with its urban form. Downtown is full of surface parking even in the parts people claim are cute and nice.

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Re: 26th / 28th Streets in South Minneapolis

Postby seanrichardryan » February 19th, 2014, 11:01 am

I'm not sure if this was previously mentioned, but 26th is scheduled for a mill & overlay this summer between Hiawatha and 35W.

http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/cip/all/WCMS1P-118936

26th is currently a 2-way from Hiawatha to Cedar and the stoplights are due for upgrades this summer.

If they're going to make changes, now is the time.
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