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Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: March 12th, 2014, 8:09 pm
by eazydp
For the past few days Franklin Bridge/East River Road light has been a flashing red 4-way stop. It made me recall this thread as I noticed that traffic was significantly less backed up. This might be the most counter productive stop light in the city.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: March 12th, 2014, 9:52 pm
by Mdcastle
The bases often are slightly raised, but the snow is piled higher than that around the base and the bases aren't always completely watertight. This isn't an issue with the old electromechanical controllers as they didn't have conflict monitors.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 23rd, 2014, 8:21 am
by mattaudio
I see the stoplight at 36th and Emerson was removed, probably due to the 36th Street cycletrack project. One down, hundreds to go.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 23rd, 2014, 8:28 am
by twincitizen
After maybe 3 months of being a 4-way stop sign (and functioning perfectly for $0), 28th & Grand's stoplight is back in service, now with extra loud, neighborhood-destroying audible pedestrian countdown timers. "WAIT.WAIT.WAIT.WAIT.WAIT. WALK SIGN IS ON TO CROSS.GRAND. WALK SIGN IS ON TO CROSS.GRAND."

I'm genuinely pissed off about this particular stoplight (and in general) how the city doesn't evaluate the need for them, even while doing these ADA intersection upgrades. I mildly harassed Lisa Bender about it once, while discussing the larger 26th/28th Street project, but I think I need to harness my rage and write up something to her and Public Works. Aside from many of these lower volume stoplights just not being necessary, they are a huge waste of taxpayer money. As a good liberal, I don't get into many tea-party-esque fits of rage over government waste, but I'm making an exception here.

In the mean time, I'm going to cover up the beg button speakers with electrical tape. It will still be quite audible to anyone at the intersection, because they have that shit turned up to 11, but hopefully I won't be able to hear it from my bed.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 23rd, 2014, 8:41 am
by FISHMANPET
The technology exists to have speakers that adapt their volume to the ambient noise, so they're louder during the day and quieter at night. If we're going to light money on fire with these signals, let's not half ass it, let's full ass it.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 23rd, 2014, 8:44 am
by mattaudio
I'm going to head over to 28th&Grand at 5 AM tomorrow morning and hit the button repeatedly.
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 23rd, 2014, 8:55 am
by Silophant
twincitizen wrote: I'm moving. Never will I ever live on a corner again. Especially one with a stoplight, but probably just in general. Mid-block is the place to be.
Make sure it's a long block. I lived right in the middle of the Dinnaken block (and four floors up to boot!) when they installed the new stoplights after the LRT construction. Just meant that I could hear both the Huron and Ontario lights.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 23rd, 2014, 8:59 am
by RailBaronYarr
We do so little driving now, but our route to/from daycare drop-off takes us through 28th/Grand. I don't make the drive anymore (but did yesterday) and noticed how utterly useless the stoplight at 28th/Grand was given how well the stop sign worked for July/August. Also. 35th and Bryant is an equally useless light.

I meant to note the removal at 36th and Emerson since it's 600' from my house. Sorry!

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 23rd, 2014, 11:31 am
by talindsay
I don't recall where I heard this so I'm probably making it up, but I remember hearing that many in the blind community really dislike these talking stoplights because the device yelling at them makes it impossible for them to hear the nuances of the traffic - it makes it harder for them to tell if it's actually safer.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 23rd, 2014, 11:31 am
by blobs
mattaudio wrote:I'm going to head over to 28th&Grand at 5 AM tomorrow morning and hit the button repeatedly.
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT.
Bahahahahaha.

I think some of these buttons I think they changed the mechanics, you can't repeatedly press it and hear "wait" because kids/adults would sit there and hammer on them.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 23rd, 2014, 11:36 am
by twincitizen
Wow, Bing Maps' streetview is recent! Check out this shot from this summer, after 28th & Grand's old stoplight was taken out and the 4-way stop went in. Look at that stupid idiot standing at the corner :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=44.951 ... ORM=LMLTCC

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 23rd, 2014, 11:40 am
by David Greene
LOL!

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 23rd, 2014, 11:43 am
by FISHMANPET
Yer famous!

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 23rd, 2014, 11:54 am
by grant1simons2
I've switched to bing view now because 1) It's recent and 2) it's just as HD as google without the amount of blurring

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 24th, 2014, 8:10 am
by Realstreets
In response to OP: Yes. But only because their all timed!!! Still trying to determined what the city actually did when they updated the signal technology this past year...

Bing maps is great. So much faster than google. Only down side is the map info (businesses) can be inaccurate or out of date.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 24th, 2014, 8:16 am
by froggie
and noticed how utterly useless the stoplight at 28th/Grand was given how well the stop sign worked for July/August.
One thing to keep in mind is that you can't use July/August as a guide as traffic volumes tend to be lower (b/c kids not in school). A better gauge of whether the signal is needed would have been to test the all-way stop during September/October.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: September 24th, 2014, 9:15 am
by RailBaronYarr
froggie wrote:
and noticed how utterly useless the stoplight at 28th/Grand was given how well the stop sign worked for July/August.
One thing to keep in mind is that you can't use July/August as a guide as traffic volumes tend to be lower (b/c kids not in school). A better gauge of whether the signal is needed would have been to test the all-way stop during September/October.
Well, the light just became operational in the last week, right? From Labor Day through the first time I noticed it running, there still didn't seem to be any issues with the stop sign. This was at 6:50-7:00 AM on the days I catch a ride to Franklin/Nicollet to head into downtown by bus (which admittedly happened maybe once or twice in that 2-3 week span). Mpls' traffic count system shows peak hour counts for this intersection is from 7:45-8:45, and sees just shy of 1,000 vehicles approaching from the west (taken Sept 22, 2011). Mid-day hourly of 517 and PM peak hour 710. I guess that's more than I would have expected, but would be curious (even under the engineer's modeling) what the LOS would be here with the stop sign vs light.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: January 11th, 2019, 3:20 pm
by twincitizen
Reviving an old thread here.

Last night I noticed there is now a stoplight at Xerxes/60th, which was always a 4-way stop (at least for the 12 years of available Google Street View). You don't see too many new stoplights in the city, not as replacements of 4-way stops anyways. Seems like if changes are made, it's more common in the other direction (going from stoplight to 4-way).

This particular intersection makes way more sense with a stoplight though, due to the high thru-traffic on Xerxes vs. little cross-traffic on 60th. Xerxes used to back up for blocks at this intersection (all the way to crosstown), due to the low throughput of a 4-way stop. Going northbound at ~6:45pm yesterday, it was still pretty backed up when Xerxes was red and 60th had the green. Just an observation...people who actually live or work in the area probably have additional thoughts about this or similar nearby intersections on Xerxes, Penn, and France.

-Segue-
Over in my part of town (East Nokomis), it baffles and frustrates me that on 28th Ave and 34th Ave, every controlled intersection between Minnehaha Parkway and Crosstown is a 4-way stop. Despite the east-west cross streets (52nd & 56th especially) having very, very low traffic, you hit a half-dozen 4-way stops in ~10 blocks. 28th Ave has three consecutive stop signs at 56th, 57th, 58th and 34th has them at 52nd, 51st, and the light at 50th. Many of them shouldn't have stop signs or stoplights at all, but instead could just have push button activated flashers for pedestrians to get across safely. More traffic calming would be needed to discourage speeds, as there would no longer be stop signs every other block. Stop signs alone are a terrible traffic calming method on arterial streets. They lower speeds only AT the intersection, and people generally gun it for the other ~1000' between acceleration & braking.

I'm torn - I don't want to make my neighborhood less safe for anyone or any mode, but this inappropriate use of 4-way stops is really aggravating for those of us who need to get between ~46th (or further north) and Crosstown every day. There are better solutions for these intersections than using 4-way stops at cross-streets with near-zero traffic.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: January 11th, 2019, 8:34 pm
by ko123
Lyndale and 33rd, 34th, 35th, and 36th ... at least one of those can go.

Re: Does Minneapolis have too many stoplights?

Posted: January 12th, 2019, 9:44 am
by PhilmerPhil
No to Lyndale. Crossing unsignalized 32nd is already nightmare. I really want to see the signal cycles shortened on Lyndale. I shouldn’t have to wait 90 seconds to cross a street.

The four way stop at 34th and Hennepin seems to be working fine. Is it going to stay that way or are they going to put in a stoplight when the finish the project up?