Ayd Mill Road

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
dingo
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Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby dingo » June 24th, 2014, 7:34 am

I still think Ayd Mill Road would be a perfect spot for a streetcar line. Connecting downtown St Paul to the Green line either at Raymond Station, West Gate or Prospect Park.

LakeCharles
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Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby LakeCharles » June 24th, 2014, 7:56 am

dingo wrote:I still think Ayd Mill Road would be a perfect spot for a streetcar line. Connecting downtown St Paul to the Green line either at Raymond Station, West Gate or Prospect Park.
It doesn't look like there is enough room in the rail line from Lexington over to downtown. Would you just run it down Randolph/Jefferson and then up West 7th?

mattaudio
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Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby mattaudio » June 24th, 2014, 10:12 am

If anything, the CP Merriam Park Subdivision (the RR in the trench) should be preserved/upgraded for passenger rail routed between SPUD and Target Field Station. It could include a stop at Snelby, or University/Fairview, Dinkytown, and Nordeast/St. Anthony.

Snelbian
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Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby Snelbian » June 24th, 2014, 11:26 am

That would be an interesting way to redevelop the old gas station/cafe at Marshall and Snelling. The railroad is holding onto an empty strip there, too, on the north side of the new bank parking lot. So there'd certainly be enough space for a small platform, maybe integrated into a two or three story building on the corner to deal with the big difference in elevation there.

froggie
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Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby froggie » June 25th, 2014, 9:05 pm

I don't see rail stations within the trench or corridor as particularly viable, especially now that we have the Green Line between the downtowns. A better use of rail/transit funds would be to upgrade the corridor for a faster non-stop trip between SPUD and "The Interchange".

ProspectPete
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Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby ProspectPete » June 26th, 2014, 6:05 am

Agreed. That's what the short line originally was designed for, right? ( except the Milwaukee Road depot instead if it he interchange)

mattaudio
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Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby mattaudio » June 26th, 2014, 8:04 am

Yep, that's correct. Although it did have a stop in Merriam Park as a "new town) around the turn of the 20th Century... there was a proposal by which the new State Capitol and Cathedral would have been built in Merriam Park rather than near downtown.

Bonus points for anyone who can a) name where the "long line" went, the original CMSP&P route from St. Paul to Mpls. Or b) anyone who can name other railroads who used the Milwaukee Road terminal in Minneapolis.

David Greene
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Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby David Greene » June 26th, 2014, 11:49 am

mattaudio wrote:b) anyone who can name other railroads who used the Milwaukee Road terminal in Minneapolis.
CB&Q, right?

web

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby web » June 26th, 2014, 9:15 pm

c b and Q used the great northern because the empire builder etc switched lines and engines there

The soo line did and I think either vhicago great western or one of its future suiters did?

commissioner
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Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby commissioner » June 26th, 2014, 9:23 pm

I believe the Short line was part of the Milwaukee's line to the west coast, the line in Hopkins is a part of that, Now it ends at Hiawatha just north of Lake Street.

MidwayLuke
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Cover Ayd Mill Road

Postby MidwayLuke » December 24th, 2014, 11:04 pm

So let me know if this has already been talked about (new here),

BUT, as someone who commutes to work on Ayd Mill almost every day, I'm well aware of

1) How useful it is.

2) How ugly it is.

I'm also aware of the movement to make it into a linear park or at least shrink it to a two lane road.



I say let's put a lid on Ayd Mill Road (like the proposal for the 35W lid) and put the linear park on top!

This would keep the functionality of the road and rail route and would provide even more room for a linear park / greenway type deal.

talindsay
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Re: Cover Ayd Mill Road

Postby talindsay » December 25th, 2014, 12:40 am

I love lids and think we should lid a lot of the grade separated infrastructure we have. The thing about lids is that they are very expensive to maintain due to ventilation requirements, so unlike infrastructure with high capital but low operating costs, a lid has to continue justifying its expense. I'm sure the economics of a lid on 35W could be made to make sense given the massive traffic volume and the relatively high density of surrounding uses. Ayd Mill Road, on the other hand, has low traffic counts and is surrounded by low density and low intensity uses. As such, while I don't think it's a bad idea, I think it's likely to be well below a justifiable threshold of cost to benefit. Grade separation in general certainly isn't justified for current traffic levels - it's inky because the grade was already separated that this exists.

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Re: Cover Ayd Mill Road

Postby David Greene » December 25th, 2014, 10:20 pm

No way we should cap it. It's a natural valley. Ayd Mill should be two lanes (at least until connected to 94) and a linear park in the valley is a wonderful idea.

Now that Amtrak is at Union Depot, can we reroute the train and reclaim the rail right-of-way? Do any freight lines run along there? Extending the Midtown Greenway along the Short Line to downtown St. Paul has been discussed for years

Snelbian
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Re: Cover Ayd Mill Road

Postby Snelbian » December 26th, 2014, 8:18 am

Capping Ayd Mill doesn't address the primary complaint with Ayd Mill, at least at the north end. People don't want a park because it's needed so much as that it would mean the end of commuter highway traffic dumping into Lex-Ham and Merriam Park neighborhoods rather than 94 where it should be, and clogging Snelling and Selby in particular. Capping would do nothing for a lot of money.

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MN Fats
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Re: Cover Ayd Mill Road

Postby MN Fats » December 26th, 2014, 2:08 pm

Snelbian wrote:Capping Ayd Mill doesn't address the primary complaint with Ayd Mill, at least at the north end. People don't want a park because it's needed so much as that it would mean the end of commuter highway traffic dumping into Lex-Ham and Merriam Park neighborhoods rather than 94 where it should be, and clogging Snelling and Selby in particular. Capping would do nothing for a lot of money.
Pretty much this. Problem #1 is that it doesn't connect to 94. Somehow find a way to fix that and you're golden. Just my opinion, but they should have just had 35e go straight north and connect to 94 in the first place instead of veering to the east at Ayd Mill. But I'll be the first to admit I don't know all of the background info -- there were so many politics involved and books have been written on the fight over that freeway location.

commissioner
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Re: Cover Ayd Mill Road

Postby commissioner » December 26th, 2014, 9:00 pm

David Greene wrote:No way we should cap it. It's a natural valley. Ayd Mill should be two lanes (at least until connected to 94) and a linear park in the valley is a wonderful idea.

Now that Amtrak is at Union Depot, can we reroute the train and reclaim the rail right-of-way? Do any freight lines run along there? Extending the Midtown Greenway along the Short Line to downtown St. Paul has been discussed for years
Amtrak needs those tracks for servicing at Midway, and for private Car Storage. Plus it would be a PITA backup move that neither Amtrak (time) or BNSF (very busy mainline) want. Freights use the line as well for trains going to the train yard north of Midway.

Wedgeguy
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Re: Cover Ayd Mill Road

Postby Wedgeguy » December 27th, 2014, 1:55 pm

Having lived in St. Paul at one time. This debate has been going on for 30 years. There is now way you will ever get rid of Ayd Road as the people in the neighborhoods that would be stuck with the traffic that they had before then Mayor Kelly opened up the south end would never allow that to happen. That was just the south end. Get rid of the road and you would have even more people upset about the increased traffic in their neighborhoods than you would please with a park along an active rail tracks that will not be going away either. There will never be a compromise where all are happy. If this were not the case, this same bitch fest would not be 20+ years old. They will be bitching another 20 years before anything happens. MAybe if they rebuild 94 they will design a workable solution, but until then. Not going to happen.

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MN Fats
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Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby MN Fats » January 20th, 2015, 3:30 pm

Some movement on the long awaited I-94 connection?

The Union Park District Council tweeted a link to this FB post: https://www.facebook.com/CitizensForABe ... =1&fref=nf

For those that don't use facebook here's the text:
Plan for finally connecting Ayd Mill Road to 1-94 is In the offing.
In the last issue of the Villager, Jane McClure reports that the city of St. Paul is finally moving forward with a plan to connect Ayd Mill Road to I-94 frontage roads. I know this isn't popular with everyone, but the majority seem to have wanted this for a long time. I won't pull any punches and tell you straight up I'm in favor of a connection. Not only do I use Ayd Mill road, most neighbors and businesses in and around the Selby/Marshall/Snelling area have long suffered the consequences of the no connect and the law suit that kept trucks off of I-35 E Parkway have created lots and lots of semi trucks running through our neighborhood and businesses.
While I love the concept that Neighborhoods First have laid out for a liner park, it's just not practical as we who live around Snelling and Selby understand. 46,000 cars pass over Snelling at I-94 daily and 36,000 on Snelling at Selby. Selby at Saratoga gets 14,900 cars per day. This is not acceptable for a inner city neighborhood.
I have long been in favor of a 30 mph parkway, only two lanes with a nice bike route connecting Jefferson Bicycle Boulevard to the north. I envision roundabouts where their are currently entrances and exits. And it sounds as if this is more the direction the city may be going with this.

So let the controversy begin.

Below are some excerpts from the article which is not online. Make sure you pick up a copy of the latest Villager for the complete story. Besides, it's the best neighborhood newspaper in the Twin Cities.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What to do with the north end of Ayd Mill Road is a decades-old conundrum that may finally be addressed in the new year. Money for further traffic studies, let alone road construction, will not be sought through the city of St. Pat~'s 2016- 2017 Capital Improvement Budget (CIB). However, city officials say they are nearing a decision on a north-end connection.

"I think the issue is not whether there will be a connection, but how the connection will be configured and how many traffic lanes it will have:' said Nancy Homans, public policy director for Mayor Chris Coleman and acting director of the cities Department of Public Works.

According to Homans, there will never be total agreement about what to do with Ayd Mill Road's north end. Nevertheless, city officials will announce the next steps to be taken sometime this year following discussions among Coleman and City Council members Dai Thao, Dave Thune, Russ Stark and Chris Tolbert, whose wards I through 4 are all on or near Ayd Mill Road. With the January 16 deadline for CIB re- quests fast approaching, Public Works will not be submitting a request for Ayd Mill Road funding through that budget process, according to Homans. Nor will any of the affected district councils.

With the completion later this year of the Vintage on Selby and its 200-plus apartments and Whole Foods supermarket, plus ongoing developments on and near University Avenue, a better connection between Ayd Mill Road and 1-94 to the north has taken on more urgency.
They also linked an image of a bike path along the road and diagram of a similar proposal from 2005.

Image

Image

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MN Fats
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Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby MN Fats » January 20th, 2015, 3:31 pm

So is this just more talk or does anyone think something will actually come from this?

Snelbian
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Re: Ayd Mill Road

Postby Snelbian » January 20th, 2015, 5:38 pm

I'm guessing talk.

I ran into another member of the Union Park land use committee today who expressed a sentiment I also had - who has the city been talking to? Because it wasn't us.


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