Page 4 of 7

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 4th, 2015, 2:31 pm
by Snelbian
I don't like to wade into this mess very often, in part because I've seen how it takes over discussions of unrelated issues in this area ALL THE TIME. That said...

What's the point of the linear park/bike path idea? I mean, I love biking. I love walking. They're my primary summer/winter means of transportation, respectively. I like the Greenway. It's a great, pretty way to get places. A path along Ayd Mill is nothing at all like that, though, except in the sense that it's a dedicated lane near a train track. Let's say I hop on near Dayton and Saratoga and start peddling south. Where can I go that's easier than getting there via other routes? What amenities are there along that corridor? Because other than a Kowalski's and a garden center, I can't think of a single thing. I guess it'd be a functional recreational trail, but not even a very scenic one running in between a freight line and a highway. And it keeps getting billed as akin to the Greenway, which it very clearly would be nothing like. So why do it? Why not spend that money and effort on some bike routes that are actually worth using for any conceivable reason?

In conclusion, I hate Ayd Mill. I just hate some of the proposed fixes slightly more.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 4th, 2015, 3:15 pm
by twincitizen
With the purported "two-lane parkway" option (with a connection to 94 at the north end), wouldn't there still be room for a bike/ped facility in the corridor?

While the linear park may look pretty on paper and check a number of urbanist / urban design boxes, it seems beyond pie-in-the-sky thinking that Ayd Mill Rd is going to disappear entirely as a vehicle route. Should it become a true freeway or be "upgraded"? Absolutely not. But it is a fact that it takes car trips off of surface streets, like Lexington and Selby/Snelling. If Ayd Mill Rd finally gets the I-94 connection, the aforementioned streets should absolutely see dramatic traffic calming as a trade-off. But the idea of Ayd Mill Rd going away completely needs to be dropped.

That said, I do think the idea is useful as a bargaining device - it tells planners and officials that some people in the neighborhood want other things besides roads

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 4th, 2015, 3:24 pm
by mattaudio
Exactly. And, no matter what, it's still a grade-separated railroad corridor. Sure, add a bike path and make it a little nicer in the trench. But ultimately it's a trench for transportation, and that's because of the railroad more than the roadway.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 4th, 2015, 6:59 pm
by ProspectPete
An atd mill bike trail would be a direct shot by bike to the soon to be destination of Snelling and Selby, and the Jefferson street bike way. If they can get some sort of midtown-like ramp connection up to summit at Griggs (two other bikeways) it could be pretty useful for bike riders.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 4th, 2015, 7:46 pm
by Snelbian
Eh. The greenway runs through dense shopping and residential districts. The Dinkytown trench serves a large semi-captive biking community. Ayd Mill would just mean fighting the rail road so that we can draw a diagonal. It doesn't seem worth it.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 4th, 2015, 7:59 pm
by RailBaronYarr
Yeah, personally I don't really think the 'green' in the Midtown Greenway is a huge selling point for my use. It being grade separated means I never worry about being hit by a car, it drowns out street noise, and provides a unique view while passing under all the bridges/housing/etc. Most of the green is scruffy old railbed and not-great bushes (the nice garden areas aside). I can't imagine a 2 lane parkway + trail + RR would be so terrible compared to a full-on linear park.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 5th, 2015, 1:46 am
by commissioner
Snelbian wrote:
Vagueperson wrote:Are the trucks still using Snelling with the bridge closed?
Absolutely. I can see them out my living room window all day.
OK, I'm confused. What bridge is closed?

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 5th, 2015, 7:12 am
by Snelbian
Good question. I think maybe Vagueperson meant WILL they still use it with the 94 bridge closed. In which case I have no idea.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 5th, 2015, 7:23 am
by froggie
I'm presuming that the "closed bridge" talk refers to the upcoming closure of the Snelling bridge over I-94 this summer for redecking.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 5th, 2015, 7:32 am
by Vagueperson
Whoops, I thought for some reason it was already closed. Let's imagine my question was posed in future tense

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 5th, 2015, 3:53 pm
by David Greene
Snelbian wrote:I like the Greenway. It's a great, pretty way to get places. A path along Ayd Mill is nothing at all like that, though, except in the sense that it's a dedicated lane near a train track.
I understand what you're saying and agree that removing the road isn't going to happen, but it's kind of ironic you phrase it this way because an Ayd Mill bike facility could very well be an extension of the Midtown Greenway. :)

Not sure it's a useful extension but it could happen.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 5th, 2015, 4:04 pm
by mulad
Vagueperson wrote:Whoops, I thought for some reason it was already closed. Let's imagine my question was posed in future tense
The Snelling bridge over I-94 had been briefly closed sometime in late summer or autumn 2014, so I'd been pretty confused about it for a while.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 5th, 2015, 4:16 pm
by acs
David Greene wrote:
Snelbian wrote:I like the Greenway. It's a great, pretty way to get places. A path along Ayd Mill is nothing at all like that, though, except in the sense that it's a dedicated lane near a train track.
I understand what you're saying and agree that removing the road isn't going to happen, but it's kind of ironic you phrase it this way because an Ayd Mill bike facility could very well be an extension of the Midtown Greenway. :)

Not sure it's a useful extension but it could happen.
Complete with an LRT connection between Central and Riverview maybe? Hey we can dream can't we.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: April 23rd, 2018, 3:37 pm
by MN Fats
Noticed yesterday that they installed "Rough Road" signage on Ayd Mill rather than actually fixing the road :lol:

Anyone know what Carter's plan is for this road (if any)?

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: April 23rd, 2018, 3:59 pm
by EOst
http://neighborhoods-first.org/st-paul- ... d-mill-rd/

Mill and overlay programmed for 2022.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: April 23rd, 2018, 7:29 pm
by Didier
Ayd Mill is a challenge for me, because it's right at the part of my commute where my coffee is at an adequate temperature to drink, but then it's hard to actually drink the coffee because the road is so bumpy. It gets me every time. 🤷‍♂️

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: April 23rd, 2018, 7:36 pm
by grant1simons2
Maybe they should just tear it up and make a boulevard.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: April 24th, 2018, 8:14 am
by bubzki2
Even during rush hour daily, there's simply no need for the 2x2 configuration. I'd be fine with one lane each way, plus a nice trail next to it for future Greenway hookup. I really hope they don't just mill and overlay what is there now.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: April 30th, 2018, 6:33 pm
by Oreos&Milk
grant1simons2 wrote:
April 23rd, 2018, 7:36 pm
Maybe they should just tear it up and make a boulevard.
Or add another lane in each direct, it is the year of the Republican. All good ideas, all good ideas.

Re: Ayd Mill Road

Posted: March 27th, 2019, 11:37 am
by alexschief
After complaints "on social media," St. Paul is planning on spending $3.5 million (more than the entire repaving budget) to repave Ayd Mill Road two years early. The money will come out of the budget for a different street reconstruction project, which was binned after neighbors objected to adding sidewalks.

Of course, this overlay will not last especially long, considering that Ayd Mill Road is built in a creek bed and is used like a highway. This is not a road that the city should have any business maintaining. It's really disappointing to see this city continuing to throw good money after bad on this awful piece of infrastructure, which primarily serves the function of moving Dakota County drivers through St. Paul to Minneapolis. In this age of global climate change, it's even less excusable.

My hope is that the city will show the slightest bit of ambition for once, and draw a line in the sand to make this the last time they make an expenditure like this on Ayd Mill Road. It's well past due to hire a planning or landscape firm to study the road, determine who uses it, where they go, and create a vision for what could exist in its place. St. Paul could create in this space a nationally-admired linear park, an extension of the Midtown Greenway, and still have room left over in the CP right-of-way for future rail transportation uses. Instead, it wastes it on an overbuilt, underused money pit.