Red Rock Corridor

[mamundsen]

Yeah, I thought that was strange too. That is such a low threshold. For reference I ride 270, we have full articulating buses every 10 min. Yet we have no service outside of rush hour. I'd love if I could have service extended into the evening. Let me stay for a longer happy hour or event.

[DanPatchToget]

- Long term: 2020-2040. When Rt. 363 reaches 25 passengers per in-service hour, replace with BRT service.

25 passengers an hour? We need to enhance service where people are and where they want to go. What are they thinking?

Because the east metro thinks its only fair they get rapid transit service even if it doesn't make any sense. Not that I'm saying all of the east metro doesn't have the demand, but in the case of the Red Rock Corridor why not work with the railroads to upgrade and add track, implement an all-day DMU rail service with a half hourly to hourly frequency, and at the same time benefit Amtrak.

[DanPatchToget]

Dakota County votes down Red Rock Corridor- http://www.startribune.com/south-news-b ... 409966945/

[mattaudio]

Doesn't surprise me. And not much of a loss. The Afton Road station, the only station between SPUD and Newport, should have been eliminated in favor of crossing the Wakota Bridge and using Concord St or Hwy 52 freeway to access downtown. It would have provided the opportunity for transit stops at existing transit-compatible land uses such as SSP, WSP, and the West Side.

[grant1simons2]

Hey long time no talk.

Just reinstalled Firefox to find this gem of a project being in my commonly visited back in 2016.

They're still having meetings, as their most recent one was 9/28/18. Does anyone know what's new?

[mattaudio]

Why doesn't the Red Rock team get with Dakota County and consider a different routing between Newport and SPUD? Route across the Wakota Bridge and serve WSP and SSP via some combo of Concord, 52, or Robert St. Red Rock's routing along Hwy 61 from Newport to St. Paul is a holdover from when it was planned as commuter rail on the BNSF/CP mainline. The only planned stop is Lower Afton, a low-use park & ride with virtually no TOD potential.

Routing it across the Wakota Bridge to St. Paul hits much more population, employment, and existing walkable transit-oriented neighborhoods. 52 works best if you want a myopic LRT-on-wheels-to-park&rides. Robert St works best if you want to do a sort of ABRT middle segment serving a highly-transit-capable corridor. Concord St works best if you want to blend the two and use it as a catalyst for redevelopment of that tired corridor.

GMaps right now says the planned 61 alignment is 13 minutes. 494 to 52 is 18 minutes. 494 to Concord St is 19 minutes. 494>Concord>Thompson>Robert is 24 minutes. 494 to Robert St is 26 minutes.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gFP-m ... sp=sharing

[DanPatchToget]

I know there's been an alternatives analysis in the past, but considering how long ago that was would there be a new one? Or are they set on BRT on the route proposed?

[DanPatchToget]

Has it not been decided that Red Rock Corridor would be BRT?

Yes, but less because it's really the best transit mode for this corridor and more because no one liked how the Northstar turned out.

It's frustrating how much Northstar has influenced views on commuter/regional rail in the region. Instead of an all-day regional rail service to St. Cloud we got a commuter rail line that goes as far as Big Lake, so of course the ridership won't meet expectations. In pre-pandemic times the Northstar got 2,500-3,100 average weekday riders, which while not great it's not terrible either. That's more than what the Red Rock Corridor "BRT" is anticipated to have in 2040, which is 2,200 (source: https://redrockcorridor.com/wp-content/ ... ow-res.pdf).

While obviously much more expensive, I can see regional rail on the Red Rock Corridor from Minneapolis to Hastings via St. Paul having at least double the ridership of the "BRT" proposal. With track capacity improvements it would also benefit the freight railroads and Amtrak, plus there's the potential to extend regional rail further southeast to communities not served by Amtrak along with the existing Amtrak stations in Red Wing, Winona, and LaCrosse.

[MNdible]

It's frustrating how much Northstar has influenced views on commuter/regional rail in the region. Instead of an all-day regional rail service to St. Cloud we got a commuter rail line that goes as far as Big Lake, so of course the ridership won't meet expectations. In pre-pandemic times the Northstar got 2,500-3,100 average weekday riders, which while not great it's not terrible either.

It is, in fact, terrible. Really terrible, given the on-going per-rider subsidies that it takes.

And the forum fantasy that adding some mid-day trips to St. Cloud for a handful of students and somebody's grandmother will somehow fix the service...

[DanPatchToget]

It's frustrating how much Northstar has influenced views on commuter/regional rail in the region. Instead of an all-day regional rail service to St. Cloud we got a commuter rail line that goes as far as Big Lake, so of course the ridership won't meet expectations. In pre-pandemic times the Northstar got 2,500-3,100 average weekday riders, which while not great it's not terrible either.

It is, in fact, terrible. Really terrible, given the on-going per-rider subsidies that it takes.

And the forum fantasy that adding some mid-day trips to St. Cloud for a handful of students and somebody's grandmother will somehow fix the service...

Actually it's not. If you want to see terrible there's TexRail between Fort Worth and DFW Airport that cost $1 billion while only having a pre-pandemic average weekday ridership of around 1,500.

For many people it makes sense to have trips that aren't just running to Minneapolis in the morning and back north in the evening. Considering all the traffic on I-94 and Highway 10, and the constant costly upgrades we do to those roads that only encourages more driving, there's obviously travel demand throughout the day between Minneapolis and St. Cloud. Would Northstar take a large chunk of that if it operated all day to/from St. Cloud? Of course not, since a lot of people are going beyond Minneapolis and St. Cloud, but the number of people who could feasibly take an improved Northstar instead of driving is certainly more than just "a handful of students and somebody's grandmother."

Same logic applies to Red Rock, and regional rail on the Red Rock Corridor has a greater advantage because it can serve both downtowns plus the University of Minnesota and urban neighborhoods in St. Paul.

[Bakken2016]

Apparently Red Rock corridor is switching to light rail, which is the silliest thing in the world.


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[Anondson]

Wat.

[thespeedmccool]

Apparently Red Rock corridor is switching to light rail, which is the silliest thing in the world.


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Uh, what? A light rail from St. Paul to Woodbury by the government commission currently pitching a BRT to Hastings? What?

Where did you see this? I know Red Rock is going through a "vision refresh" right now (read: restudy which will lead to nothing) and was even discussing a Hastings to Bloomington BRT (lol) but what is this?

Something's confusing here. Either

1. The person recording the meeting minutes is confused
2. Red Rock is going to be the organization to spearhead a Gold Line BRT to LRT conversion (how? what?)
3. An LRT down 10/61 to Lower Afton or Bailey, then along either into Woodbury (how? what?)

The third option could maybe make sense (the state is currently studying 10/61 from 94 to Lower Afton) but it seems far, far more likely that Red Rock is pivoting to commuter rail, and the minutes recorder just thinks any transit project is light rail.

[Korh]

I forgot this thing existed, maybe they saw some DMU's like the staddler or what ever siemens has (sprinter?) and thought that since there about LRT size and not as big as Northstar they must be LRT

But still thought this project was just another thing that "we'll could make an official study and then leave it on the shelf and maybe use it one day decades from now" along sides Bethel and Norwood/Young America

[mamundsen]

Apparently Red Rock corridor is switching to light rail, which is the silliest thing in the world.


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What meeting is this from? Someone should listen to the recording and report back. OR… email and ask for clarification.

[Silophant]

Given how often the intercity train to Duluth gets called LiGhT rAiL, I've gotta assume the same thing is happening here. There's no way they can actually be considering LRT for the seven miles of nothing between Dayton's Bluff and 494, or the rest of the way to Hastings. That's comparable to the full length of the extended Blue or Green Lines, and there's a reason we didn't build those all in one go.

[angrysuburbanite]

It is truly frustrating how many people fail to understand the difference in the service of LRT vs regional rail, commuter rail, and intercity rail. There needs to be a "transit mode identification" PSA or seminar in Minnesota at some point

people actually call the NLX a light rail? oh boy...

In all seriousness, though, this corridor looks well-suited for some form of regional rail, not... light rail. If that happens, say goodbye to that impressive passengers-per-mile number our LRT system has.

[EOst]

You can see the final revisioning plan here: https://redrockcorridor.com/wp-content/ ... 312024.pdf

[Bakken2016]

Apparently Red Rock corridor is switching to light rail, which is the silliest thing in the world.


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What meeting is this from? Someone should listen to the recording and report back. OR… email and ask for clarification.

I have emailed Commissioner Bigham for clarification.

[Bakken2016]

LRT is not being considered, must have been a typo.


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