Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

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Multimodal
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Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Multimodal » May 1st, 2018, 8:21 am

Anondson wrote:If E line goes France, and if a stop at 62nd is in the cards, I’d like Edina to consider allowing that string of duplexes on France right there be upzoned to allow more than duplexes.
That’s a good question. Those duplexes seem to comprise a “lost neighborhood”, that doesn’t neatly fit into the half-dozen neighborhood nodes Edina has defined. It’s in between Southdale and the Wooddale-Valley View nodes.

If a cap (not another cap!) were built over 62 between France & Xerxes, connecting Southdale with Strachauer Park, would that tie in the lost neighborhood of duplexes? Is that a natural area for a bump in density?

Edit:

There are also the duplexes on Valley View itself, north of 62. Not technically part of Southdale or Wooddale-Valley View.

Bakken2016
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Bakken2016 » May 3rd, 2018, 9:32 am

The $50 million for the D and B line are not in the House bonding bill.

grant1simons2
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby grant1simons2 » May 3rd, 2018, 2:29 pm

I am shooketh

Bakken2016
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Bakken2016 » May 11th, 2018, 1:22 pm

http://www.startribune.com/republicans- ... 482391911/

This would be a shady way to pay for the Rapid Buses, and make it look like republicans aren't raising taxes....

MNdible
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby MNdible » May 11th, 2018, 1:30 pm

I think it would be a stretch to spend this money on aBRT. Wastewater treatment seems a little more feasible.
Environment and Natural Resources Trust Fund (ENRTF):
In 1988, 77% of Minnesota voters approved a constitutional amendment establishing the ENRTF (Article XI, Sec. 14) - a constitutionally dedicated fund that originates from a combination of Minnesota State Lottery proceeds and investment income. The purpose of the ENRTF is to provide a long-term, consistent, and stable source of funding for activities that protect, conserve, preserve, and enhance Minnesota's "air, water, land, fish, wildlife, and other natural resources" for the benefit of current citizens and future generations. Since 1991, the ENRTF has provided approximately $500 million to approximately 1,000 projects around the state.

Bakken2016
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Bakken2016 » May 11th, 2018, 2:08 pm

True, but they could allocate projects from the bonding bill to this, and then use bonding money for aBRT.

tmart
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby tmart » May 11th, 2018, 3:20 pm

Well, if aBRT takes cars off the road, they could calculate the CO2 and PM2.5 that's being averted and make a legitimate argument that it's preserving the air, land, and wildlife. This would involve acknowledging that climate change is a real thing, so it would be fun to watch the 2018 GOP try and make that argument, but it would probably pass muster.

That said, we should have the money to invest in transit and climate resilience projects without siphoning from more-direct conservation efforts. This ain't exactly a prairie preserve or a wetland restoration.

Bakken2016
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Bakken2016 » May 21st, 2018, 7:39 am

Womp, no money for aBRT in the bonding bill.

Also I’m assume none of you are going to vote for Jeff Johnson for Governor, so call him out on his s***. His website specially says he will ban light rail and invest in a better bus system. But when Hennepin county passes a resolution to support aBRT he is the only one to vote against it!


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tmart
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby tmart » May 21st, 2018, 10:07 am

Is this something the county and/or city could fund?

Bakken2016
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Bakken2016 » May 21st, 2018, 10:26 am

tmart wrote:
May 21st, 2018, 10:07 am
Is this something the county and/or city could fund?
I would assume either county or the cities of Brooklyn Park, Minneapolis, Richfield, and Bloomington(D Line).

Bakken2016
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Bakken2016 » June 14th, 2018, 10:18 am

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DanPatchToget
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby DanPatchToget » June 14th, 2018, 4:14 pm

What do they mean by "No Arterial BRT expansions recommended" on the last page?

Bakken2016
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Bakken2016 » June 14th, 2018, 4:19 pm

DanPatchToget wrote:What do they mean by "No Arterial BRT expansions recommended" on the last page?
• Transit Expansion – focus on new rides
• Transit Modernization – focus on existing rides

So they don’t plan on building aBRT to a route that doesn’t currently exist, only Modernizing routes current routes.


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alexschief
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby alexschief » June 15th, 2018, 11:25 am

mattaudio wrote:
June 15th, 2018, 9:49 am
Agreed, with the possible exception of Midtown Corridor. But with dedicated ROW and likely built to accommodate larger LRVs, Midtown Corridor would functionally be more LRT than streetcar. So the point stands!
I cannot understand why people keep referring to the Midtown rail proposal as a streetcar. It would run in a dedicated ROW, it would connect directly with two light rail lines, it's not a streetcar, it doesn't deserve to be called a streetcar, it's a light rail project. I know this is a pedantic point to make. But I make it because when I see the word "streetcar" in a public document, I assume that decision makers aren't taking whatever is being proposed seriously as a transportation investment, and are interested in it for other, dumb reasons like spurring development.

Back on the aBRT discussion, I think it'll be interesting to see how the E-Line shakes out. A few pages earlier there was a discussion about whether the route should continue to the University (duh) and down either France or Xerxes (France is the obvious choice, imo) to Southdale. But if the D and E lines end up through-running downtown, I think it'd be worth a look to through-run the C-Line down Cedar Avenue all the way to the Mall. With the C and D lines making NW-SE movements through downtown, there's clear justification for transit priority lanes on 7th and 8th Streets, just as there are in the perpendicular direction on Marquette and 2nd Ave, which should reduce any concern about through-running routes racking up delays in downtown.

mattaudio
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby mattaudio » June 15th, 2018, 11:32 am

alexschief wrote:
June 15th, 2018, 11:25 am
I think it'd be worth a look to through-run the C-Line down Cedar Avenue all the way to the Mall.
Yes pllllease! There is sort of a transit desert between Chicago and Hiawatha Aves, especially south of 38th St. The 14 on Bloomington is slow but relatively frequent north of 38th St where it branches, and the 22 goes on Cedar north of 35th St. I had just been bugging MetroTransit to push the 133 eastward once the D Line opens, but ABRT on Cedar would be even better.

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Qhaberl » June 15th, 2018, 11:34 am

I was thinking about the E line yesterday. There currently redoing Hennepin Avenue from 31st St. to 36 street. It would’ve been the ideal time to upgrade bus facilities to support Arterial bus rapid transit.

My only concern with extending the E line all the way to the University of Minnesota is the downtown portion. I worry that you’re going to get a whole bunch of buses bunching up on each other. That will cause the service to lose it’s 10 minute headways.

I really hope that Hennepin Avenue, through downtown, will eventually get some transit signal priority or preemption. A dedicated bus lane on Hennepin Avenue would be wonderful, but I’m not holding my breath.

I 100% percent agree; ending the E line at Southdale is a logical choice. Who knows, it may also spur some development in the area.



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amiller92
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby amiller92 » June 15th, 2018, 12:22 pm

mattaudio wrote:
June 15th, 2018, 11:32 am
Yes pllllease! There is sort of a transit desert between Chicago and Hiawatha Aves, especially south of 38th St. The 14 on Bloomington is slow but relatively frequent north of 38th St where it branches, and the 22 goes on Cedar north of 35th St. I had just been bugging MetroTransit to push the 133 eastward once the D Line opens, but ABRT on Cedar would be even better.
It's weird that there isn't better transit on Cedar. Getting ABRT at least down to the parkway would be great for me, personally, and make some sense, but it's a little hard to see how the investment makes sense any farther south than that. You wind up with one side being park, then lake, then freeway next to the airport. Would you just run without stopping all the way to the Mall? Exit for a stop at 66th?

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby LakeCharles » June 15th, 2018, 12:41 pm

There is way lower density (jobs+population) on Cedar than on Nicollet. And the parts of Cedar with a high density are north of Lake, which are between 0-6 blocks of the light rail. South of Lake Nicollet is still much denser than Cedar, and south of 42nd the density on Cedar falls off a cliff.

15 minute frequency seems pretty reasonable between Lake and 38th (given the density), and while north of Lake could have more frequent service, that is only 6 blocks, and is close to the Blue Line anyway.

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Tcmetro » June 15th, 2018, 1:09 pm

The 14 on Bloomington is only 1/4 mile (5 min walk) from Cedar.

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby alexschief » June 15th, 2018, 1:33 pm

I said, with the C and D lines going NW/SE in downtown, there's a case for transit priority lanes on 7th and 8th. That also means there's no reason you couldn't extend the C-Line, and if you do, Cedar makes the most sense given the geometry of the route, land use in South Mpls, and the other planned aBRT transitways.

I didn't say not to build aBRT on Nicollet, I'm a firm believer that Nicollet-Central aBRT should be a priority, certainly well ahead of any expansion of the C-Line. aBRT down Lyndale would also merit a higher priority.

The aBRT update suggests a re-assessment of the aBRT corridors in 2019, and I think it'd be a good opportunity to consider the aBRT and bus systems as a whole. Consider an end goal of aBRT enhancements every half to three-quarter miles in south Minneapolis:

E - Hennepin/France
<1/2 mile>
? - Lyndale
<1/2 mile>
? - Nicollet
<3/4 mile>
D - Chicago
<3/4 mile>
C - Cedar


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