Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

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Tiller
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Tiller » July 26th, 2017, 10:41 am

According to the A Line extension study documents (https://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites ... uation.pdf), 22 new ABRT stations (11 stops, 2 directions) would cost $8.8M, which is $400k per individual station platform. It also says that there could be "up to $200,000 of savings per
BRT-ready pre-constructed station platform."

Are the savings for planning ahead for aBRT really significant enough to cut station costs in half, and thus total project costs by 25%?

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby VacantLuxuries » July 26th, 2017, 11:08 am

Extension Option 2 would nearly make this TOD:

http://www.startribune.com/hot-property ... 419996143/

I think that, plus Bethel's "we already invested in cars and have no interest in going away from that" response should make Option 2 the priority.

Edit - Missed that they already chose it as the preferred alignment. Whoops!

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Tiller
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Tiller » July 26th, 2017, 12:22 pm

The study document itself is old news that I think was posted elsewhere, I just posted it to cite the information in my question fwiw.

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby DanPatchToget » September 12th, 2017, 4:12 am

Noticed a C Line test bus in downtown Minneapolis during rush hour today. New Flyer articulated bus in the A Line paint scheme.

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby EOst » September 12th, 2017, 7:21 am

They had it sitting at Open Streets Broadway.

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby timbrack » April 7th, 2018, 6:41 pm

DanPatchToget wrote:
July 5th, 2017, 5:07 pm
I noticed in the Draft Transportation Improvement Program:
"SECT 5307: TWIN CITIES MET COUNCIL
MT-F-LINE ARTERIAL BRT TRANSITWAY
DESIGN & ENGINEERING"

"SECT 5307: TWIN CITIES MET COUNCIL
MT-G-LINE ARTERIAL BRT TRANSITWAY
DESIGN & ENGINEERING"

Allocation of funding for F Line is 2019 and G Line is 2020. How soon can we expect a selection of routes for these two lines? Anyone want to place bets?
Any rumors (or facts) on where these two routes will be yet?

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Silophant » April 7th, 2018, 9:40 pm

Neither rumor or fact, just wild supposition, but my guess is that one will be E. 7th and the other will be Nicollet-Central.

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby mamundsen » April 8th, 2018, 6:44 am

I hope it's not E 7th. To me this area has 3 possible projects. I do not think all three need to happen.

Rt 54 extension - starts June 9(?)
Rush Line BRT
E 7th aBRT

How is that spending our transit dollars wisely?

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby timbrack » April 8th, 2018, 7:32 am

My guess would be Nicollet-Central & American. I'm not opposed to the E 7th aBRT, but it did score 11th out of 12 corridors in the ATCS study & I don't see it being built until the Riverview Corridor is closer to completion.
I could see it going:
F - Nicollet-Central
G - American
H - E 7th
I - Robert St.

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby DanPatchToget » April 8th, 2018, 8:53 am

Didn't American Blvd. score last? Not that I would be opposed to it being next in line.

I'm thinking Nicollet-Central is the F Line and the G Line will be in the east metro (Rice Street or Robert Street).

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby timbrack » April 8th, 2018, 9:37 am

American did score last, but seems to be the option with the path of least resistance (no Dakota/Ramsey separate studies and Riverview Corridor to consider).

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Tiller
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Tiller » April 8th, 2018, 4:34 pm

mamundsen wrote:
April 8th, 2018, 6:44 am
I hope it's not E 7th. To me this area has 3 possible projects. I do not think all three need to happen.

Rt 54 extension - starts June 9(?)
Rush Line BRT
E 7th aBRT
Rt 54 extension is to build ridership for E 7th aBRT (and it is starting June 9th! Yay, finally!) From what I've heard over time, Metro Transit got some federal grant money to fund it for 3 years, and they'll only be extending every-other trip, so it'll be half the frequency of the 54 bus (20 mins peak, something longer than that off-peak).

The Rush Line isn't going to happen for at least 10 years, and that's assuming we find more money for transit somewhere, because at current funding levels it's never gonna happen. Ramsey County wants to fund Riverview first. E 7th aBRT will give us a bigger bang for our buck compared to the Rush Line, at least.

Ultimately they're complementary projects that serve different travel sheds. It would be a nice suprise if E 7th St aBRT was going to enter the planning process soon.

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby DanPatchToget » April 8th, 2018, 5:16 pm

Tiller wrote:
April 8th, 2018, 4:34 pm
mamundsen wrote:
April 8th, 2018, 6:44 am
I hope it's not E 7th. To me this area has 3 possible projects. I do not think all three need to happen.

Rt 54 extension - starts June 9(?)
Rush Line BRT
E 7th aBRT
The Rush Line isn't going to happen for at least 10 years, and that's assuming we find more money for transit somewhere, because at current funding levels it's never gonna happen.
Which is why we need a metro, or even state, referendum on funding transit projects. At least if it fails we just go back to the status quo and try again another time.

To me East 7th ABRT is like West Broadway ABRT or streetcar; both will have transitways in the same general area, but only serving a few of the same destinations.

East 7th near the Rush Line and serving Downtown St. Paul and Maplewood Mall.
West Broadway near the Bottineau/Blue Line and serving Downtown Minneapolis and Robbinsdale.

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby mamundsen » April 8th, 2018, 6:36 pm

Ok. Thanks for the extra info. Now that I am looking at it on a map, I see rt 54 and E 7th aBRT are the same. I can see how they are connected. Kinda like versions 1.0 and 2.0 of the same project. I didn't realize that.

timbrack
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby timbrack » April 8th, 2018, 11:52 pm

I'm so torn on West Broadway. Streetcar would be better for North Minneapolis, but aBRT would be good for North Minneapolis and Robbinsdale and stands a chance at getting started much sooner.

Vagueperson
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Vagueperson » April 9th, 2018, 3:00 pm

When I asked Metro Transit about what happens after the #54 extension's 3-year "demonstration" period was complete they did not mention the East 7th ABRT (though I mentioned it in my question). Rather, the answer was sort of that it would duplicate the future Rush Line. While they travel in the same general area they would not have stops in the same places (outside of Maplewood Mall and maybe Arcade Street).
I hope the #54 demonstration is in preparation for an East 7th ABRT because I think we should have both Rush Line and East 7th.
I also agree that we need to increase funding to push these BRT and ABRT projects through.

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Tiller
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Tiller » April 9th, 2018, 3:37 pm

Vagueperson wrote:
April 9th, 2018, 3:00 pm
When I asked Metro Transit about what happens after the #54 extension's 3-year "demonstration" period was complete... the answer was sort of that it would duplicate the future Rush Line.
Part of the methodology for predicting ridership of projects like the Rush Line involves the Met Council's assumed baseline of transit service in 2040(?), which includes the E 7th St aBRT. If we're gonna get federal money, we are legally(?) obligated to stick to determinations like that from the study. If ridership was smaller due to the promised connecting transit service going unfulfilled, and it's enough that the feds wouldn't have approved the project, there'll be drama. It's probably a prerequisite at this point since we still need to improve the Rush Line's FTA score a bit more.

But yeah when the money runs out, if Metro Transit hasnt come up with a new source of funding, I think the cities of Maplewood and St Paul should chip in to keep it in place.

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Vagueperson » April 9th, 2018, 9:10 pm

Interesting point.

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Tiller
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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby Tiller » April 14th, 2018, 8:38 pm

(This map was posted by EOst in the Hennepin/E Line thread)
Image
I just want to say how disappointed I am that it looks like Ramsey County got the A Line extension into what appears to be the official aBRT queue.

There are many other areas where aBRT should go before the A Line extension.

The most deserving example would be aBRT-ifying the 6 bus to Normandale Lakes. This is a tangent but it looks like Edina is probably why that isn't gonna happen. None of the transitways on this map go through the city of Edina. At worst they get close to and touch the borders. Not even the 169 hBRT would go through Edina, since it's on the western border of the city.

I bet the E Line aBRT turns west from Uptown to terminate at West Lake because either Edina shut it down behind the scenes or the Met Council assumed Edina would shut it down. Also would explain why the Met Council never bothered studying hBRT on highway 100.

But yeah upgrading the 63/74 buses would be a great aBRT alternative to serving Arden Hills with the A Line extension as far as Ramsey County stuff goes.

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Re: Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby DanPatchToget » April 14th, 2018, 9:24 pm

I thought people (not on this forum) were complaining about the Met Council being too progressive. That map looks pretty conservative to me.


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