Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

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Arterial Bus Rapid Transit Corridors

Postby mulad » July 19th, 2012, 8:59 am

Here's a thread for Metro Transit's Arterial Transit Corridor Study (ATCS). I haven't heard of any action being taken since the open houses a few months back, but their timeline indicated that they may pursue funding sources throughout the year.

The study was focused on "rapid bus" service, which can be like bus rapid transit in almost every way except that exclusive lanes were not considered. Pretty much everything else was, however:
  • Limited-stop service
  • Traffic signal priority
  • Raised platforms for near-level boarding
  • All-door boarding with either pre-payment of fares at stations, or Go-To card readers installed at all doors
  • Well-designed stations with lighting, heat, and, NexTrip displays
Unfortunately, many of the routes included in the study are also tied up with other studies looking at light rail, true BRT, and streetcar service. That was particularly true of the slow, busy routes in Minneapolis. The only routes planned for near-term implementation are along Snelling Avenue and West 7th Street in Saint Paul.

Here's a map of the routes that were studied:
corridormap_rev_600.jpg
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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby stp1980 » July 19th, 2012, 11:38 am

This would be a great complement to LRT and expand its utility by making the major buslines efficient. I hope they do the Snelling one as a demonstration seems like they could introduce and test the concept here before trying it out on other routes!

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby Andrew_F » July 19th, 2012, 12:06 pm

I'm really not a fan of how a lot of the routes are competing with streetcar studies. I wish the city would be more proactive about tue streetcars.

I wonder if they would consider installing overhead power on some of these routes? Would be nice to get rid of some noise and exhaust.

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby mulad » July 19th, 2012, 2:05 pm

Yeah, that would be nice. These days, I'd probably push for something like this where buses recharge at stations:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3rg-SsPJuU[/youtube]

It's not entirely clear, but it sounds like those buses use ultracapacitors rather than batteries, which are a bit more suited to being charged/discharged rapidly and over and over again. And it'd be best if the energy storage system is powerful enough to propel the buses for several miles so each station stop is just topping things off...

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby MNdible » July 19th, 2012, 5:23 pm

Why not just wait for fuel cell buses?

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby mulad » July 19th, 2012, 7:01 pm

Fuel cell vehicles are electric vehicles, but with an inefficient layer wedged in the middle. Charging and discharging a battery is around 90% efficient, but using electrolysis to extract hydrogen from water is only about 50% efficient, and fuel cells to convert that hydrogen back into water+energy are also only about 50% efficient. In the end, you get something that's only about 1/4 as efficient as going with the plain electric route. FCVs also often need batteries or capacitors onboard to buffer the imbalance between the power needed at the wheels and what is coming off of the fuel cell at any given moment (in other words, they're often hybrids). Batteries are expensive. Fuel cells are really expensive. Why keep a really expensive, inefficient part when there's a simple and easy alternative?

Fuel cells have been pushed in part because they were a magical carrot for automakers to dangle in front of state and federal legislators back in the late '90s and early '00s. They got California and other states to delay enforcement of electric vehicle mandates by a decade (they're coming into force again now, which is why a lot of electric cars are coming onto the market now -- often only for lease in limited markets rather than for sale anywhere).

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby Tcmetro » July 19th, 2012, 10:31 pm

Trolleybuses would be nice, but the W 7th and the Snelling lines feature highway running, which I would imagine don't go together too well. It might make sense for the Nicollet, Chicago, Hennepin, etc line; however, a garage would have to be converted to trolley power or a new garage established in proximity to these lines.

Diesels will probably be best for these lines, even moreso than hybrids, due to the limited stops and higher speeds.

As for the launch of Rapid Bus on Snelling, it would certainly be welcome in conjunction with the opening of CCLRT.

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby MNdible » July 20th, 2012, 8:31 am

You're no doubt right about the limitations of fuel cells, but I was just trying to envision an option that wouldn't need the major infrastructure investment and the restrictions that gives you. Maybe something like the above is a good middle ground (not needing continuous overhead catenary lines).

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby Tcmetro » July 30th, 2012, 9:23 am

It looks like an upcoming amendment to the TPP will add Fremont-Emerson and Penn Avenues in North Minneapolis to the list of potential Arterial BRT lines. Probably a good idea, since buses run every 7 minutes on Fremont and every 12 on Penn.

EDIT: Here's the link: http://councilmeetings.metc.state.mn.us ... ridors.pdf

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby mulad » August 3rd, 2012, 5:41 pm

Metro Transit is running a poll to help find a name to be used for this rapid bus/arterial BRT concept.

http://www.snapsurveys.com/swh/surveylo ... 4392177967

Your choices are:
  • Connect
  • Max
  • Move
  • Rapid
  • Select
  • Swift

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby Lancestar2 » August 4th, 2012, 12:28 am

I voted for Max! I think it's the best choice. I could go into detail but I'm to tired haha I already created a nice slogan too for promotion!

MAX Bus, Max frequency, Max speed, Max service, That's a MAX Bus!


may need work and some returning but I think it would really get the point across the other names really were limiting but hey it's life and sadly most people just don't care that much about naming a high frequency bus route network... :cry:

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby Scott Wood » August 4th, 2012, 4:15 am

I voted for rapid, as it is the standard term for this sort of service. MAX means light rail the only place I've heard it used (Portland).

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby MNdible » August 4th, 2012, 7:30 am

I went with Move, because I like alliteration. Max might be OK, but to me that suggests a premier service like LRT, rather than just faster bus service.

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby Tcmetro » August 4th, 2012, 8:11 am

If we are going to keep copying LA, we should go with Rapid. I like Swift also, but then it might sound like we are copying the Snohomish County branding...

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby woofner » August 4th, 2012, 10:07 am

Albuquerque, King County WA, Reno, San Jose, Oakland, and Ausin use Rapid or variations for this type of service in addition to LA. Kansas City uses Max for a service that I believe is similar in operations although more aspirational in concept. New York of course uses Select.

So I'd say we should go with the emerging standard, except I like Swift for the opportunities it provides for any mockery the service may eventually deserve.
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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby MSPtoMKE » August 4th, 2012, 11:13 am

I voted for Rapid as well. None of the options is really unique, except for Move and maybe Connect, but I am fine with that. Rapid seems to describe it best. I don't know whether it would be Metro Rapid (too close to the new Metro branding?), or RapidBus or just plain Rapid. My second choice was Swift.

"Connect" to me suggests that it is a feeder bus network, not a rapid service.
"Select" seems like it is trying to be more comfortable or something.
"Move" doesn't always mean move fast.
"Max" is too linked to Portland's Light Rail system to me.
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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby mplser » August 4th, 2012, 9:08 pm

metro transit move. I voted for that one, but i don't necessarily like any of them all that much

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby Tcmetro » September 4th, 2012, 8:01 am

Looks like Metro Transit is officially advancing the Snelling Ave corridor first, and construction could be underway as soon as 2014.

http://www.metrocouncil.org/newsletter/ ... sAug23.htm

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby NickP » September 4th, 2012, 9:16 am

Just as a brainstorm, I think it would be cool if we invoked the Mississippi in our branding. Any ideas on if that could be possible? Unfortunately all I can come up with is Miss or Trickle hahah. Maybe Rush?

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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Postby min-chi-cbus » September 4th, 2012, 9:40 am

"The Percolator".....come to our trains that collect people and sit in one spot!


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