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Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: December 19th, 2014, 11:08 am
by Tcmetro
I was reading through the 2040 TPP update that is supposed to go before the Met Council for approval soon, an update on arterial BRT is included:

- Removal of W 7th St BRT from the plan
- Chicago-Fremont is included as the third line, after Snelling and Penn. Projected cost, $77 million

http://www.metrocouncil.org/METC/files/ ... 4105af.pdf

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: December 19th, 2014, 1:43 pm
by twincitizen
Pages 8-9 of that document (labeled as pages 233-234) just makes me want to eat a bullet.

Met Council TPP: "Here are our key principles for local bus service planning."

Metro Transit SIP: "Here's our new Service Improvement Plan that incorporates none of those principles."

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: September 26th, 2016, 12:09 pm
by twincitizen
Resurrecting this thread after nearly 2 years of silence. I was skimming the draft update to the 2017-2020 TIP and see that the D Line (first time seeing that name in an official Met Council document) is in the TIP, with a planned opening date of 2020/2021 and a tentative budget of $77MM. This hasn't changed from TCmetro's link above (non-working) which penciled in the same numbers 2 years ago.

DRAFT 2017-2020 TIP (link has been fixed)

We'll have to see how things go with the C Line getting fully funded ($36MM total) before we can even dream about this one becoming a reality. $77MM is a lot for a project that won't be getting any money from CTIB. It's pretty much hoping and praying on federal and Met Council money and a big chunk of the ~2018 bonding bill. Other than "it's the busiest bus line in the region", I think it's going to be a real uphill battle to secure that much funding. The City Council and state legislators are going to have to become champions of this specific project for that to happen, and with the long slate of projects ahead of this one (Orange, SW, Bottineau, C Line, streetcar?), there just doesn't seem to be a way this will get political headwinds until some of those are actually under construction. My concern is that the political capacity doesn't exist to even begin paying attention to this project until 2018 at the soonest (when at least Orange, SW, and C will be under construction.) I guess the important thing for the next ~2 years is that the D Line project is funded for study and engineering, which I'm guessing could cost $5MM for a corridor this long.

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: September 26th, 2016, 12:35 pm
by mattaudio
Too bad Minneapolis can't cough up $15-20M a year for aBRT. Well, we should.

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: September 26th, 2016, 1:22 pm
by twincitizen
Too bad Minneapolis can't cough up $15-20M a year for aBRT. Well, we should.
I'd settle for $5MM/year even. If you figure opening a Minneapolis-centric aBRT line every other year, beginning with the C Line in 2019 and the D Line in 2021, that would be a $10MM city contribution for each project. That's actually a lot when you assume a big chunk of FTA money will pay for the new buses, a Met Council contribution, the fact that the D Line also runs through Brooklyn Center, Richfield, and Bloomington, etc. Maybe the city contribution could be equivalent to half the cost of the stations inside city limits or something.

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: September 26th, 2016, 2:29 pm
by Anondson
Is there a end to end map of the D Line?

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: September 26th, 2016, 2:43 pm
by EOst

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: September 26th, 2016, 2:58 pm
by David Greene
If there was ever a case for a Minneapolis subway, this is it.

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: September 26th, 2016, 3:03 pm
by talindsay
If there was ever a case for a Minneapolis subway, this is it.
Indeed. Sadly, we're 40 years too late for that to be even vaguely considered.

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: September 26th, 2016, 3:24 pm
by Anondson
Thanks EOst!

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: September 26th, 2016, 11:46 pm
by mister.shoes
Skipping right past 48th, I see. Huh.

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: September 27th, 2016, 9:57 am
by mattaudio
We're working on that, but it's tricky. We think they just spaced these stops out without doing much analysis of the land use around them. At a minimum, we'd like to see stops at 48th and 46th (for transfer to the 46).

But it may make sense to try to hit the old streetcar nodes, in addition to the transfer at 46th: 38th, 41st (maybe not?), 44th, 46th (transfer), 48th, 52nd (spliting the Parkway and 53rd nodes).

Clearly they are fine spacing things differently with the 54th and 56th Street stops, or 60th/Chicago to 60th/Portland. Skipping 48th and Chicago is not acceptable.

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: September 27th, 2016, 11:56 am
by amiller92
Especially because there isn't really a reason to stop at 50th (aside from that's where I'd get it if I decided to walk over there instead of take the 14).

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: September 27th, 2016, 12:04 pm
by EOst
The stop locations are just conceptual. Both the A and the C have seen stations moved from these concepts once planning began in earnest.

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: December 9th, 2016, 12:24 pm
by Tcmetro

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: December 9th, 2016, 6:28 pm
by grant1simons2
E Line should continue up into University where the 6U already goes. Making the final stop Stadium Village station.

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: December 9th, 2016, 7:26 pm
by nBode
^agreed

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: December 10th, 2016, 8:50 am
by EOst
Not sure I love the perception of Minneapolis getting SW, Bottineau, Orange, half of A and lines B, C, D, and E before anyone considers the E 7th line, especially with several reconstruction projects planned or upcoming for the 2020-period. Maybe that timeline will shift once Riverview/Rush planning is complete, but man.

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: December 10th, 2016, 8:55 am
by DanPatchToget
There has to be a way to speed this up. I thought the original plan was opening one ABRT route every year.

Re: Arterial Transit Corridor Study ("rapid bus")

Posted: December 10th, 2016, 10:34 am
by Silophant
E Line should continue up into University where the 6U already goes. Making the final stop Stadium Village station.
Agreed. It would be nice if the E Line did its own thing in addition to being a Band-Aid for the crappy SWLRT routing.
Not sure I love the perception of Minneapolis getting SW, Bottineau, Orange, half of A and lines B, C, D, and E before anyone considers the E 7th line, especially with several reconstruction projects planned or upcoming for the 2020-period. Maybe that timeline will shift once Riverview/Rush planning is complete, but man.
To be nitpicky, the B Line extends a bit more than twice as far into St. Paul as the A Line extends into Minneapolis, but, yeah, it's pretty lopsided.
There has to be a way to speed this up. I thought the original plan was opening one ABRT route every year.
Assuming the state wanted to play ball with funding, since Republicans keep talking about how much they would prefer enhanced buses to choo-choos. That didn't happen, though.