Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
Multimodal
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Multimodal » April 20th, 2018, 6:46 am

Anyone writing a story for Streets.mn about Peter Berge being left off the hook for Scott Spoo’s death while running in St. Paul?

http://www.startribune.com/no-charge-at ... 480259313/


Multimodal
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Multimodal » April 20th, 2018, 6:47 am

You know, Peter Berge, the chair of the Ethics Committee of the MN State Bar Hennepin district.

https://www.mnbar.org/about-msba/relate ... trict-four

DanPatchToget
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby DanPatchToget » April 24th, 2018, 10:52 pm

http://www.startribune.com/pedestrian-k ... 480768361/

So the pedestrian failed to yield to the driver, but I'm wondering if the pedestrian walked against a red, or was this in one of the turnouts? If it was in a turnout aren't drivers supposed to yield (even though they don't and they're going so fast they wouldn't see a pedestrian)?

mattaudio
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mattaudio » April 25th, 2018, 9:11 am

Yeah "pedestrian failed to yield to the driver" is an untrustworthy declaration (by both police and journalists) without sufficient detail to confirm.

thom
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby thom » April 25th, 2018, 9:27 am

I believe that the only way a pedestrian can fail to yield to a vehicle at an intersection under MN law is if they are directly crossing against a red light.

bubzki2
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby bubzki2 » April 25th, 2018, 10:33 am

thom wrote:
April 25th, 2018, 9:27 am
I believe that the only way a pedestrian can fail to yield to a vehicle at an intersection under MN law is if they are directly crossing against a red light.
If I recall correctly, the MN statutes basically agree with you. In other words, it's illegal to cross at an intersection when it says "don't cross," but if you cross mid-block (however that's defined) then you can legally cross, but must yield to vehicles in doing so. I've always thought this was a bizarre situation where it's more legal to cross mid-block (at your discretion) than the cross at a controlled intersection (at your discretion).

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Anondson
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Anondson » April 29th, 2018, 5:43 pm

This year St. Paul will step up warnings to drivers who stop on crosswalks starting Monday. Then in June will be handing out tickets.

Later in August they will mark whether the blocking driver was endangering and thus hit with a fine and court date.

http://www.startribune.com/the-drive-dr ... 481190871/

I hope this begins a years long effort. Just a summers worth won’t change driver culture of stopping on crosswalks.

SamtheBusNerd
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby SamtheBusNerd » April 29th, 2018, 5:57 pm

Anondson wrote:
April 29th, 2018, 5:43 pm
This year St. Paul will step up warnings to drivers who stop on crosswalks starting Monday. Then in June will be handing out tickets.

Later in August they will mark whether the blocking driver was endangering and thus hit with a fine and court date.

http://www.startribune.com/the-drive-dr ... 481190871/

I hope this begins a years long effort. Just a summers worth won’t change driver culture of stopping on crosswalks.
As someone who was involved in planning some of these events a few years ago, I think it's really frustrating that only St. Paul is doing enforcement. It's been pretty successful in the past in increasing compliance with the law, but it hurts the effort that there's no enforcement in Minneapolis. People get the idea that you only have to stop at crosswalks in St Paul, and not everywhere. At the time I was involved, I was told that both cities receive pedestrian safety funding but Minneapolis was diverting it to other things. Not sure if that's still the case.

nstudenski
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby nstudenski » May 24th, 2018, 11:37 am

I've been doing some research looking into the impact of public transportation on pedestrian safety. I've been thinking about it ever since I came across this thing earlier this year.
https://www.twincities.com/2018/02/11/s ... ur-trains/

The question I want to answer is whether (as Soucheray believes) a street filled with cars is safer than a street filled with busses/trains. It's been tough.

I found one study that compares the rate of fatalities by vehicle type and a few other factors, but it doesn't really answer my question.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... p00232.pdf

The study breaks trips down into 'urban' and 'rural' categories, but "'Urban’ roadways are defined as those in towns or cities with populations of 5000 or more."

I think this definition downwardly biases the number of pedestrian deaths attributed to cars. A town of 5,000 or even 25,000 likely has fewer buses and fewer pedestrians, who cross less-busy roads. In other words, there are fewer pedestrian deaths and fewer buses, but the number of vehicle-miles driven per person is higher in smaller cities. Similarly, cars spend proportionally more of their time on highways (absent of pedestrians) than do busses.

I also disagree with the study's use of deaths per vehicle mile. Car trips are generally longer than bus trips, and buses carry more passengers than cars.

Unfortunately, I think some of these limitations are attributable to flaws in the data as opposed to flaws in the study. Does anyone know of a treasure-trove of pedestrian death data that I haven't yet stumbled upon? I'm thinking about requesting data from MPD and MTPD. Any insights are very welcome.

tmart
Union Depot
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby tmart » May 24th, 2018, 11:53 am

I also disagree with the study's use of deaths per vehicle mile. Car trips are generally longer than bus trips, and buses carry more passengers than cars.
Yeah, I imagine those numbers would look dramatically different per-passenger-mile than per-vehicle-mile.

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Anondson
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Anondson » October 25th, 2018, 5:05 pm

An improved pedestrian crossing at France Ave and 38th will be soon installed. France Ave will be closed from November 1st to 8th and detoured from 38th St. to 39th St. Northbound detoured over to Ewing and Southbound over to Glenhurst.

https://www.stlouispark.org/Home/Compon ... list=/home

Multimodal
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Multimodal » October 25th, 2018, 6:17 pm

A sanctuary island!

Another one at 42nd St. would be nice.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby DanPatchToget » November 22nd, 2018, 10:11 pm

http://www.startribune.com/authorities- ... 501040201/

Does anyone know if these are RRFBs? From Google Maps I can see overhead signs, but the street view is as late as 2011 with just regular signs and a regular beacon. Either way, absolute worst crossing to have just some flashing yellow lights, not even flashing red lights would cut it. This is what happens with county engineers and politicians who couldn't care less about pedestrians.

Edit: These are indeed RRFBs. Who in their right mind would think these are enough to stop a divided highway with traffic going 50 miles per hour?

DanPatchToget
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby DanPatchToget » January 22nd, 2019, 8:42 pm

http://www.startribune.com/mndot-accele ... 504723082/

Apparently a two year process is considered sped up.

Just make the traffic signals permanent and then study a grade-separated pedestrian crossing. I stand by my stance that a solid red light is better than flashing yellow, no matter how fast they're flashing.

bubzki2
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby bubzki2 » February 12th, 2019, 10:34 am

MNDOT: Education Resources for anyone looking to improve pedestrian safety statewide. Safety tips for pedestrians and motorists

https://www.dot.state.mn.us/peds/educat ... Q18HuhBgc4

This was recently cited in a heated Nextdoor thread in Saint Paul. The person cited this page as justification for essentially blaming the victim style arguments regarding pedestrians. I couldn't believe the content when I clicked the link. Anyone able to shed light on who wrote this and how it could be updated if necessary?

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Anondson
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Anondson » February 12th, 2019, 11:17 am

What updates do you think that page needs?

Maybe it would be worth a post, line by line, auditing the language on that page.

bubzki2
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby bubzki2 » February 12th, 2019, 4:06 pm

For one, I'd like to know where the data was sourced that was used for that page. Reviewing that study, if it exists, would be worthwhile.

Multimodal
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Multimodal » February 13th, 2019, 10:51 pm

“About one-third of pedestrians tested in fatal crashes have high alcohol content in their bloodstreams”

But motorists, what, never do? Where is the corresponding fact?

It also says pedestrians & motorists are each at fault half the time. But with what we know about pedestrian deaths, lately, when pedestrians are blamed, we never hear their side of the story and it seems motorists are usually given an out.

I agree with bubzki2 that this is fishy data.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby DanPatchToget » June 1st, 2019, 3:05 pm

I got clipped by a car while riding my bike along Bush Lake Road. Thankfully no injuries and no damage, and a cooperative and nice driver who stayed on the scene while I called the police just to be on the safe side.

I was heading south on Bush Lake Road just before the bridge over 494. I waited to cross at the westbound off-ramp, and once the walk signal was on I proceeded onto the crosswalk. The driver made a rolling stop while turning right and clipped my back tire at 5 mph max, so I only slid a little bit but didn't lose my balance. The officer tells me I'm not allowed to be on the sidewalk which I fact checked when I got home, and while on certain sidewalks you can't or shouldn't be in this case I was allowed to be there unless Bloomington specifically prohibits biking on that sidewalk (if in the unlikely chance that's the case, then they need to put some signage there indicating that instead of expecting people to know which sidewalks they can and can't bike on). The driver was apologetic and seemed to learn her lesson to come to a full stop and look both ways before proceeding on a red light, but it's still one of many badly designed intersections in Bloomington. At the very least they could prohibit right turns on red from the westbound off-ramp to northbound Bush Lake Road plus a sign indicating to stop before the crosswalk on red. There's a pretty bad blind spot from both sides of the crosswalk and with traffic coming off the freeway at high speed it's only a matter of time before something like this happens again but may not have as much luck as I did.

Multimodal
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Multimodal » June 10th, 2019, 8:49 am

DanPatchToget wrote:
June 1st, 2019, 3:05 pm
I got clipped by a car while riding my bike along Bush Lake Road. Thankfully no injuries and no damage, and a cooperative and nice driver who stayed on the scene while I called the police just to be on the safe side.

… it's still one of many badly designed intersections in Bloomington. At the very least they could prohibit right turns on red from the westbound off-ramp to northbound Bush Lake Road plus a sign indicating to stop before the crosswalk on red. There's a pretty bad blind spot from both sides of the crosswalk and with traffic coming off the freeway at high speed it's only a matter of time before something like this happens again but may not have as much luck as I did.
Sorry to hear about your crash. Three Rivers Parks is planning a north-south route along this segment and the Dan Patch rail line environs from Bloomington to Saint Louis Park or Golden Valley. Segment A will connect Bloomington’s Hyland Lakes Regional Park with Edina’s 70th & Cahill neighborhood node & the Nine Mile Creek trail.

Construction for even this Segment A is still a couple years away, though.


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