Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
mattaudio
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mattaudio » October 23rd, 2015, 6:12 pm

Potential grade separation at 110 and Dodd in Mendota Heights.
http://kstp.com/article/stories/s3942451.shtml

mattaudio
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mattaudio » November 9th, 2015, 6:17 pm

City of Mpls. Launches Project to Promote Pedestrian Safety Downtown
http://kstp.com/news/stories/s3957998.shtml

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Nick
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Nick » November 9th, 2015, 6:57 pm

*****uncredited cameo by me in the background at :37

amiller92
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby amiller92 » November 10th, 2015, 10:52 am

Meanwhile, it appears that city crew were back out today to remove the 28th street pedestrian medians:
https://twitter.com/ajm6792/status/664100755301924868

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Sacrelicio
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby Sacrelicio » November 21st, 2015, 4:28 pm

acs wrote:Among the spectrum of transportation options in Minneapolis, bikers are not the ones that have been getting screwed recently.
I use every mode of transportation available in this city Bike or bus to work, drive for errands and on the weekends, walk often. Cyclists have it the worst. Bad drivers, threats, infrastructure problems...you name it.

Hell, there are a good number people who flat out think you shouldn't be riding at all. At least buses are mostly accepted by the public (even if people are annoyed by them sometimes) and pedestrians have an entire sidewalk no matter where they go.

trigonalmayhem

Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby trigonalmayhem » November 30th, 2015, 10:20 pm

Sacrelicio wrote:At least buses are mostly accepted by the public (even if people are annoyed by them sometimes) and pedestrians have an entire sidewalk no matter where they go.
I beg to differ. The sidewalks are very often obstructed by road signs, sandwich boards, unnecessary street furniture, poorly placed utility boxes and poles, unshoveled snow, sidewalk cafés, and several other things.

And just this weekend I got off at a bus stop with two cars parked in the bus stop area and when someone else on the bus told the guy to move he was indignant and asked why we couldn't walk an extra five feet. It turned out the guy who told him to move actually worked for metro transit and started giving him the business, so the dude just swore at him and drove off. So yeah, the grass isn't much greener.

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Sacrelicio
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby Sacrelicio » November 30th, 2015, 10:44 pm

trigonalmayhem wrote:
Sacrelicio wrote:At least buses are mostly accepted by the public (even if people are annoyed by them sometimes) and pedestrians have an entire sidewalk no matter where they go.
I beg to differ. The sidewalks are very often obstructed by road signs, sandwich boards, unnecessary street furniture, poorly placed utility boxes and poles, unshoveled snow, sidewalk cafés, and several other things.

And just this weekend I got off at a bus stop with two cars parked in the bus stop area and when someone else on the bus told the guy to move he was indignant and asked why we couldn't walk an extra five feet. It turned out the guy who told him to move actually worked for metro transit and started giving him the business, so the dude just swore at him and drove off. So yeah, the grass isn't much greener.
You can't walk around a sandwich board? Come on man.

Are our sidewalks worse on average than in any other city? It's not like we're one of those southern cities where entire areas don't have sidewalks at all. I've never noticed a significant difference between our sidewalks and those of any other city or town.

But anyways, regardless of how good/bad our sidewalks are, my point was that bikes aren't getting amazing treatment compared to other modes. Much of the infrastructure still doesn't actually exist and people regularly threaten and intimidate cyclists without provocation.

PhilmerPhil
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby PhilmerPhil » November 30th, 2015, 11:15 pm

you don't understand. Minneapolis is a terrible terrible city

trigonalmayhem

Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby trigonalmayhem » December 1st, 2015, 9:23 am

Minneapolis isn't terrible, it's just mediocre with delusions of grandeur fueled by meaningless magazine list rankings. There are plenty of worse places, but comparing yourself to them only serves to make you feel better, not challenge you to be better.

And yes *I* personally can and do walk around sandwich boards. But when you have five or six on a single short block in close proximity but laterally all over the place it forces a winding path that is unacceptable for a public thoroughfare. They're also often placed in such a way that anyone in a wheel chair actually can't 'just walk around them.' My point is that the pedestrian realm is littered with obstacles that wouldn't be tolerated in car lanes. It happens to bike lanes too, but much less often than the debasement of sidewalks.

And if you haven't noticed a difference between sidewalks here and other places you obviously haven't traveled much in places where they care about pedestrians.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby FISHMANPET » December 1st, 2015, 10:46 am

What are those places, besides "Europe."
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Sacrelicio
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby Sacrelicio » December 1st, 2015, 10:54 am

trigonalmayhem wrote:Minneapolis isn't terrible, it's just mediocre with delusions of grandeur fueled by meaningless magazine list rankings. There are plenty of worse places, but comparing yourself to them only serves to make you feel better, not challenge you to be better.

And yes *I* personally can and do walk around sandwich boards. But when you have five or six on a single short block in close proximity but laterally all over the place it forces a winding path that is unacceptable for a public thoroughfare. They're also often placed in such a way that anyone in a wheel chair actually can't 'just walk around them.' My point is that the pedestrian realm is littered with obstacles that wouldn't be tolerated in car lanes. It happens to bike lanes too, but much less often than the debasement of sidewalks.

And if you haven't noticed a difference between sidewalks here and other places you obviously haven't traveled much in places where they care about pedestrians.
Mediocre compared to what? New York, which is 16 times the size? We have a strong economy, educated populace, lots of parks, lots of culture, decent public transportation, we're active and healthy...what more do you want? Every city has pros and cons. Delusions of grandeur? Most people here understate the city, save for some internet listicle posting on social media.

Where are you seeing these sandwich boards and sidewalk cafes that are so numerous that they create these problems? Where do you live? Maybe it's how things are done in your area. If you live in an area with tons of restaurants and bars and such, you will have to deal with them. Other cities have sandwich boards and sidewalk cafes. If we didn't you'd probably then complain that our sidewalks are boring strips of concrete or something.

"And if you haven't noticed a difference between sidewalks here and other places you obviously haven't traveled much in places where they care about pedestrians."

Again, what is your point of reference? I've been all over the country. I've been to every major city on the east coast except for DC. I've been to every major Great Lakes city except for Detroit. I've been to all the major cities on the west coast. I've walked, taken transit and taxis, did the bike share in Boston. I've also been to several of the large interior cities and a couple southern cities. It's generally the same everywhere:


http://wibiti.com/images/hpmain/640/153640.jpg
Wide, but snow and ice!


http://www.etraveltrips.com/blog/wp-con ... rleans.jpg
Narrow! People walking in the street! In a major pedestrian district!


http://www.pixelshot.com/wp-content/upl ... g_9823.jpg
Barely a sidewalk at all! Are those posts barriers to keep drivers from hopping the curb?? Lunacy!


http://www.ppmapartments.com/blog/wp-co ... 050831.jpg
Street furniture! Trees! Street signs!


Here's a 360 for you:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7615605 ... 56!6m1!1e1
Narrow! Bus shelters! Newspaper boxes! Bike racks! Old timey red telephone post thingies on the corner! Streets signs! The Mission is a pedestrian bloodbath!


http://www.djc.com/blogs/SeattleScape/w ... boards.jpg
From a blog post complaining about sandwich boards. In another city.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U4KtAKGj-ow/U ... mg0057.jpg
Manhattan avenues have lots of sidewalk space...which they rent out to hot dog carts and bauble vendors!


Here's a side street from the same ultra-walkable borough:
http://footage.framepool.com/shotimg/qf ... strian.jpg


OH GOD NO NOT NEWBURY STREET:
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/140524 ... YBdQ%3D%3D
AL FRESCO HORRORS NEVAR FORGET
Last edited by Sacrelicio on December 1st, 2015, 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

trigonalmayhem

Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby trigonalmayhem » December 1st, 2015, 11:04 am

No you're right let's just settle because other places have problems too (even if they're less frequent or prominent, never mind that because you found one example!). Let's let the flyover country chip on your shoulder civic pride blind you to real problems. Things are perfect here because they're also broken somewhere else sometimes, so let's just keep everything the same and if you don't like it leave. I've been hearing the same kind of reactions to any criticism of this place for the last ten years since I moved here. It's like I stabbed your puppy in the throat if I say certain things here suck and they do it better elsewhere.

trigonalmayhem

Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby trigonalmayhem » December 1st, 2015, 11:14 am

Also your pictures show sidewalks mostly 2-3x as wide as most of them here, and they all generally seem to have a clear path down the middle. The ones in the SF picture are too narrow and I'd complain about those too if I lived there.

The'stuff' to sidewalk ratio is what's important, and keeping a straight clear path for walking. Plenty of cities do a better job with that. Minneapolis is pretty middle of the pack, and on the low end for supposedly progressive cities. I get really sick of people here patting themselves on the back for such a good job when some magazine or website throws an attaboy our way with questionable methodology and acting like everything is great. It's great if you're a white person with a college degree and a car. It's a mixed bag for everyone else.

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Sacrelicio
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Re: Public Transit News and Current Happenings

Postby Sacrelicio » December 1st, 2015, 11:17 am

trigonalmayhem wrote:No you're right let's just settle because other places have problems too (even if they're less frequent or prominent, never mind that because you found one example!). Let's let the flyover country chip on your shoulder civic pride blind you to real problems. Things are perfect here because they're also broken somewhere else sometimes, so let's just keep everything the same and if you don't like it leave. I've been hearing the same kind of reactions to any criticism of this place for the last ten years since I moved here. It's like I stabbed your puppy in the throat if I say certain things here suck and they do it better elsewhere.
Nowhere did I say we can't improve. We can always improve, and yes, we have issues with pedestrian and transit infrastructure that we should fix. But saying we're uniquely bad in this area is ridiculous and inaccurate. Every city needs to work on these things. You said I clearly hadn't been to a city that "cares about pedestrians" but I haven't seen any examples from you where this is the case, and at least I gave some examples and spoke from my own experience in other cities, which again, you haven't done. You bash Minneapolis and complain constantly, so yes you probably should leave and go someplace you like more.

But you'll probably hate it there too.

twincitizen
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby twincitizen » February 8th, 2016, 12:05 pm

Quite possible this has been posted before, either here or in Downtown General Topics, but here's a PDF explaining the upcoming (2016-17) Downtown Pedestrian Improvement Project: http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 151529.pdf

trigonalmayhem

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby trigonalmayhem » February 8th, 2016, 2:29 pm

There's not even an icon for curb outs or sidewalk widenings. Good to know they're doing the minimum possible to *maybe* meet ADA requirements. But hey, throw some trees down so there's even less space on the sidewalks, cool. I like trees, but I'd like to see wider sidewalks with trees instead of shoehorning them into places where it's already too narrow for a downtown street with real pedestrian traffic because we need 3-4 wide lanes for car traffic to funnel it back to highway on-ramps.

mattaudio
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mattaudio » February 8th, 2016, 3:11 pm

Yeah this is the project where a KSTP reporter was reading through public comment, saw mine, and made a surprisingly-non-Hubbardian story about it:
http://kstp.com/article/stories/s3957998.shtml

trigonalmayhem

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby trigonalmayhem » February 9th, 2016, 11:34 am

Oh this is that thing? I didn't realize they were still just getting to this.

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Anondson
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Anondson » May 5th, 2016, 10:48 pm

The Brooklyns took a tour of pedestrian improvements. Visited the pedestrian bridge in Columbia Heights and the France Ave and 66th, 70th, and 76th intersections.

http://post.mnsun.com/2016/05/03/tour-t ... ersection/

It was a prelude to the Blue Line Extension coming, to help with decisions in the corridors along.

mattaudio
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mattaudio » May 6th, 2016, 7:41 am

So they're visiting everything that's mediocre and expensive, rather than truly walkable urban.


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