Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
mattaudio
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mattaudio » April 7th, 2014, 11:30 am

I was just on France again this morning... it would make a great multiway boulevard between 62 and 494. It's unfortunate that recent developments along France (Container Store area, Whole Foods, Byerlys, etc) haven't figured out a consistent form facing the street.

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Anondson
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Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Anondson » April 30th, 2014, 8:22 pm

Building out sidewalks is a big deal in some parts of Saint Louis Park as the city begins filling in sidewalk gaps. Some residents are pretty damn angry.

http://sailor.mnsun.com/2014/04/29/st-l ... is-summer/

I was at this meeting that happened a few weeks ago now. Some just will never be convinced and will demand pedestrian deaths happen before they grudgingly accept sidewalks for kids who have to walk to school. It was a good sign the council voted 5–0 for going forward with this first phase of a 10-year-build-out of new connecting sidewalks.

ECtransplant
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby ECtransplant » April 30th, 2014, 8:54 pm

People who don't want sidewalks should go fester in some shitty exurb

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby FISHMANPET » April 30th, 2014, 8:59 pm

God that article was painful to read. When a first ring suburb putting in sidewalks is a huge fight, I have to wonder how screwed we all are. Though it sounds like even though the opposition was loud, they were the minority, and the city council did the right thing.

Amazing that people are worried about increased crime (what the hell? That's got to be the most dog-whistly thing I've ever heard), and also say that they don't need sidewalks because nobody's kids should be "wandering" on their own (because of course only kids would use it because once you turn 16 you park your butt in the driver's seat and don't get out until you die), but since nobody's been hurt/killed by getting hit by a car yet it's not worth the expense. I guess it also says a lot about how we're raising our children that we're locking them up and not letting them explore the world on their own.

And doesn't 1.2 million for 1.3 miles sound like a lot of money for not very much sidewalk? I don't know these neighborhoods, but isn't six feet pretty wide? I think the sidewalk in front of my house in high school was only 3-4 feet wide. But it sure as hell wouldn't have cost nearly a million a mile to build. A sidewalk in front of a house is like a weekend job for a homeowner. If you've got a strong back you could do it for what, $1000 in materials and equipment rental? The city will have a bobcat to dig up the yards and can by concrete by the truck load rather than mixing it themselves. So what the hell is costing so much?

More than anything, it goes to show how hard it is to retrofit the suburbs, and how hard it's going to be until these homeowners start dying off (20-50 years? Are their kids going to be any better if this coddling is all they know?). Humanity is so screwed, I'm gonna go light a pile of tires on fire to get it over with faster.

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Anondson
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Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Anondson » April 30th, 2014, 9:39 pm

One reason for the six-foot width is the city is committing to clearing all these new sidewalks of snow in winter. As a city-cleared sidewalk it needs to fit a five-foot wide clearing machine, the six feet gives forgiving inches for swerving that doesn't gouge grass or send the machine tipping into the street.

There were easily more voices speaking for all the sidewalks in total, but, the 39th St was maybe split 50-50 at the hearing. There were some tense moment and accusations of "they're NIMBYs!" vs. "you are listening to us!". There were other segments like on Morningside and Joppa where there were only people in favor practically begging the sidewalks be built.

[addition] Maybe the council members were doing this same count as I was while I sat in back, but regarding the 39th St split, those in favor were vastly a younger generation and those against were significantly more into the older generation.
Last edited by Anondson on April 30th, 2014, 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby FISHMANPET » April 30th, 2014, 9:56 pm

I'm torn on the city clearing the routes. On one hand, that's really nice that the city's clearing them, because that guarantees they'll be cleared. On the other hand, c'mon, it's not that hard to shovel a sidewalk. Growing up, my neighbors had a snow blower, and sometimes they'd be generous and spend the 2 minutes to clear our sidewalk for us (we just had shovels), but even when I did it, it was maybe 10 or 15 minutes to shovel the driveway. Use fines and a city snowblower to clear the ones that won't clear their own. Then again I'm sure some of these people are petty enough to not shovel their sidewalk out of spite (and I wouldn't be surprised if someone was spiteful enough to re-bury the sidewalk).

MSPtoMKE
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby MSPtoMKE » May 1st, 2014, 9:58 am

At first I assumed that those opposed didn't want to pay the assessment for a sidewalk in front of the house and the crime/safety arguments were excuses, but then I got to the part of the article about the city paying for all of the cost AND plowing them. Wow. Sure, they pay property tax, but that still seems really petty.
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Anondson
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Anondson » May 1st, 2014, 11:32 am

And everything will be built in ROW, no takings, and all effort made to relocate/replace plants and fences in the ROW in the cost.

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Mdcastle
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Mdcastle » May 1st, 2014, 12:49 pm

Bloomington plows the sidewalks- what few they have. On one hand I find forcing citizens to maintain government property as unpalatable, but I guess it's not a whole lot different than being forced into jury duty.

blobs
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby blobs » May 1st, 2014, 12:53 pm

You just gave me an interesting thought. If the cities plowed all their sidewalks, they'd have to make them all 6 feet wide to fit the machines. Good for pedestrians. And they'd have to do a better job keeping the sidewalks level, to keep the plow machine from upturning. Might not be a bad thing...most sidewalks are poorly shoveled in the winter. Minneapolis plows the streets and the alleys, why not the sidewalks too, since they're city property.

Also the France project is great. Thanks for posting the info on that, wasn't aware of what was going on before reading that.

Nice to hear too that majority of people are in favor of sidewalks.

mplser
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mplser » May 1st, 2014, 2:47 pm

blobs wrote:Minneapolis plows the streets and the alleys, why not the sidewalks too, since they're city property.
The sidewalks in my area get cleared by a machine every time it snows. I'm not sure if that is a neighborhood/city thing, or whether it is the nearby college that wants their students to be able to get to class safely... does the DID take care of sidewalks downtown?

twincitizen
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby twincitizen » May 21st, 2014, 9:00 am

A Preventable Tragedy: http://news.yahoo.com/cooper-s-story--a ... 52242.html

Pretty decent reporting considering the source. I assumed Yahoo sourced it from an actual news agency, but nope--it's their own work.

sean
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby sean » May 27th, 2014, 10:41 pm

This Russian group StopXAM is so awesome. Many good videos on their channel where they block drivers that try to go around congestion on the sidewalk, park in traffic lanes, or park on the sidewalks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGz0CJgAlNc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blUdLaV2e_E
gets real - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zwqrlq_6D0

Orbi
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Orbi » May 28th, 2014, 9:13 pm

Wow - that is crazy! Talk about guts - didn't even seem to flinch when the guy waves around a gun or pulls out a club.

mplser
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mplser » May 29th, 2014, 10:16 am

that is really awesome. Good for them taking things into their own hands when they see police just looking the other way, but DAMN! why does it seem like every youtube video out of Russia has such extreme violence???

mulad
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mulad » May 29th, 2014, 2:11 pm

Here's a presentation from Jeff Speck called "The General Theory of Walkability" -- it covers some other ideas too, but this seemed the most appropriate place to post it.


Sara Bergen
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Sara Bergen » June 12th, 2014, 12:16 pm

Thanks for posting this---helpful info.

acs
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby acs » June 17th, 2014, 11:37 am

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /10623587/

#12 in the nation is a bit of a shocker considering Atlanta took the #8 spot. The article also gives a good explanation of the demographic shifts that are powering the walkable cities movement.

nBode
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby nBode » June 23rd, 2014, 9:58 pm

http://www.wired.com/2014/06/walkable-c ... education/

Not 100% sure where to put this; the study didn't actually include MSP, but still interesting/relevant to us, I think.

grant1simons2
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby grant1simons2 » June 24th, 2014, 1:10 am

Those top 6 are mostly because their downtown area is so damn big and the transit has been perfected since the 1930's or so


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