Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
User avatar
Anondson
Capella Tower
Posts: 3327
Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Anondson » December 19th, 2017, 7:29 am

The answer may be different if it’s “safe enough for me to bike on the street” vs “safe enough for people who I think are bicyclists on where I imagine there are trails“.

EOst
Capella Tower
Posts: 2183
Joined: March 19th, 2014, 8:05 pm
Location: North End, Saint Paul

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby EOst » December 19th, 2017, 9:02 am

There's a very interesting version of this question in the East Metro Pulse survey (https://www.saintpaulfoundation.org/east-metro-pulse). Lots of people in the suburbs seem to think that they live in very bikeable places, perhaps because of all the (crappy) multiuse trails along their arterials.

pannierpacker
Metrodome
Posts: 53
Joined: July 16th, 2013, 6:25 pm

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby pannierpacker » December 23rd, 2017, 2:44 am

LearningAsIGo wrote:
November 19th, 2017, 6:56 pm
Quick note: The redesigned 8th St SE between 15th Ave SE and Central, especially the segment between 15th Ave SE and 10th Ave SE, feels so much more inviting to interact with and cross as a pedestrian than it did a year ago. The parking lane on the south (eastbound) side of the road was removed, allowing width for striped bike lanes (much appreciated improvement), but most importantly to me, clearing sight-lines so that pedestrians can actually observe oncoming vehicles... and allowing drivers to actually see pedestrians before they are in the travel lane. This area frequently had vehicles parked right up to the corners such that pedestrians were peeking out at the roadway from behind cars. I don't know, it just feels a lot better now.
As a driver it feels safer too. When heading north toward 8th street from University and turning left to head towards Central, it was usually sketchy before when making left turns. With all of those cars parked right up to the corners, sight-lines affected affected my confidence in making left turns safely.

As a pedestrian, I really appreciate the shorter crossing distance than before. I know it's the same amount of vehicle lanes, but psychologically it just feels better.

As a cyclist, the new pavement was much appreciated. The lanes are okay. I felt fine riding in the street before too.

DanPatchToget
Union Depot
Posts: 399
Joined: March 30th, 2016, 1:26 pm

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby DanPatchToget » December 24th, 2017, 1:56 pm

http://www.startribune.com/woman-run-ov ... 466258733/

I'm familiar with this area as I worked at the Star Tribune building for a short time. I wonder if the driver was going southbound as there is a tight curve where people crossing the street might not be able to see them coming. And/or with all the cars parked on the east side of the street it was difficult for the pedestrian to view any traffic approaching.

Multimodal
Landmark Center
Posts: 260
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Multimodal » December 26th, 2017, 12:12 pm

According to maps, 1st St. N. is a completely straight stretch of road.

“Mpls. cops said she crossed in the middle of the street.” Yet this is a 4-block stretch of street with no cross streets.

“Elder said there was no evidence that the driver, Lorna Sinclair-Wood, 65, of Bloomington, was speeding or under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time of the crash.” Was she distracted? How do you run over someone on a completely straight stretch of road?

I can see that someone might be surprised that someone “jumped out” from behind parked cars, but even then, would you plow someone down or brake but still hit them, which wouldn’t result in death?

If the driver truly did nothing wrong, then perhaps 30 mph is too fast a speed limit.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7526
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mattaudio » December 26th, 2017, 12:29 pm

Was the driver going eastbound having just rounded the corner?

Multimodal
Landmark Center
Posts: 260
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Multimodal » February 20th, 2018, 2:41 pm

There is some hubbub on NextDoor about car crashes and pedestrian safety on Lake St. near Bde Maka Ska.

Apparently, due to the recent pedestrian death at 54th and Penn, there is a meeting tonight at Armatage Park.

User avatar
Anondson
Capella Tower
Posts: 3327
Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Anondson » February 20th, 2018, 4:30 pm

There’s a Change.org petition started on the SLP/Hopkins/NW Edina Nextdoor groups for pedestrian safety improvements on TH 7 along Knollwood after a 15-year-old was killed crossing at a long traffic light in a cold winter evening.

Multimodal
Landmark Center
Posts: 260
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Multimodal » February 20th, 2018, 5:11 pm

That’s a good result.

On the other hand, in SLP/Edina/Mpls, they’re blaming the pedestrian for using his phone, and are reporting my posts for even *suggesting* that maybe the driver was distracted, too.

User avatar
Anondson
Capella Tower
Posts: 3327
Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Anondson » February 20th, 2018, 7:06 pm

Oh, the curmudgeons out around here are blaming this killed teen for having a cellphone too. Pretty disgusting and expected. Even the stick in the mud outraged that safety campaigns could thrust roundabouts on us.

Thing is, I’ve seen numerous pedestrians crossing the street with a cellphone in their hands but they aren’t using it while they are crossing. If that pedestrian is hit and killed, the police show up and gather up evidence but because the phone isn’t in the pocket it goes down in their reports that the dead pedestrian was “possibly using the phone”. Journalists report “possibly using the phone”.

And now based on sketchy correlations there is a moral panic about distracted pedestrians not obvious causes right there for everyone to see with their own eyes every time.

Multimodal
Landmark Center
Posts: 260
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Multimodal » February 20th, 2018, 9:56 pm

That’s a good point about police & reporters. I’m starting to question everything that’s reported. As you say, the article will say “state patrol says the pedestrian was possibly using phone”—says who? Witnesses? Did you interview them? Was there more than one? Why do they *always* say something about the pedestrian but never the driver. If you hit a pedestrian so hard with your vehicle that he flies into oncoming traffic, people are going to assume that you weren’t braking much and so were likely distracted. But that’s never in the article.

Multimodal
Landmark Center
Posts: 260
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Multimodal » February 20th, 2018, 9:58 pm

P.S. I went to the meeting in Armatage, and was surprised at some of the lack of sympathy. “Was she crossing in the crosswalk or was she getting in her parked car?”

Really? You deserve to die if you are getting in your parked car?

Complaints about narrowing of the street last year, not enough lighting, etc. Don’t we know now that widening streets, adding lighting, etc., just makes people drive faster?

schwinnletour
Block E
Posts: 14
Joined: July 27th, 2017, 9:36 am

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby schwinnletour » February 21st, 2018, 6:32 pm

I also went to the meeting last night regarding the pedestrian fatality at 54th and Penn.

Sat in the front row, Hi!

There were several comments about traffic flow in the area not being fast enough, people being upset with traffic snarls (I think that this is drivers annoyed that they have to wait for people to parallel park?). I noticed that dim lighting seemed to be a big issue for people at the commercial district.

I wanted to scream, “If the lanes are too narrow, the lighting too poor, and there are too many parked cars, everybody should slow down their driving. Drive the speed that is safe for conditions. They teach this in drivers ed!”

Somebody also complained that there was a bias against drivers and it wasn’t fair because the pedestrians and bikers should share some of the blame.

Linea Palmisano (CM) is on board on making streets safer and she’s trying to get city speed limits reduced.

She called cars weapons that drivers’ wield (I think there was an audible gasp in the room after that comment) and a lot of the room seemed to agreed people are getting worse and more careless behind the wheel with less regard for public safety. So baby steps?

Linea also responded to my email today regarding some improvements to the commercial district today (4-way stop at 54th) within 24 hours which was encouraging.

SurlyLHT
Target Field
Posts: 517
Joined: February 21st, 2017, 3:50 pm

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby SurlyLHT » February 22nd, 2018, 8:59 am

I agree with your comments and find it sad that there isn't always support for making neighborhoods safer for pedestrians.

I'll be glad to see lower speed limits, however I'm not sure how useful they are if they aren't enforced. I think slower speed limits would make drivers more able to stop when a pedestrians steps out. They also may notice them more often. I tried crossing 26th Ave and 42nd St a couple weeks ago when jogging. I stopped, saw that only one car was coming from the east and started to walk across the street to test and see if a car roughly a block away will stop. The driver didn't notice me in time and hit the brakes hard and began to lose control of his car. I thought he was literally going to wrap it around the crosswalk sign when he hit the gas, straightened it out and took off.

I just moved from the Hiawatha and Lake area to Stevens square and one of the first things you notice is how narrower the streets are in Stevens Square. With that the cars do move way slower versus speeding through the side streets as short-cuts. Although it's hard to spot the cars coming with the parked cars.

Personally, I'll be okay with speedbumps and those little traffic circles to slow cars down. Drivers don't like hurt their cars and slow down to make sure they don't get any scratches.

bubzki2
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 628
Joined: September 19th, 2012, 5:38 pm
Location: Merriam Park

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby bubzki2 » February 22nd, 2018, 9:17 am

Speedbumps are NEVER the answer. Lazy engineering at its worst.

SurlyLHT
Target Field
Posts: 517
Joined: February 21st, 2017, 3:50 pm

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby SurlyLHT » February 22nd, 2018, 9:42 am

bubzki2 wrote:
February 22nd, 2018, 9:17 am
Speedbumps are NEVER the answer. Lazy engineering at its worst.
Elaborate? They seem to slow down drivers. Perhaps use mid-block bump outs instead?

Multimodal
Landmark Center
Posts: 260
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Multimodal » February 22nd, 2018, 9:54 am

schwinnletour wrote:Sat in the front row, Hi!

… I wanted to scream, “If the lanes are too narrow, the lighting too poor, and there are too many parked cars, everybody should slow down their driving. Drive the speed that is safe for conditions. They teach this in drivers ed!”

Somebody also complained that there was a bias against drivers and it wasn’t fair because the pedestrians and bikers should share some of the blame.

Linea Palmisano (CM) is on board on making streets safer and she’s trying to get city speed limits reduced.
Hi, schwinnletour! I was one of the many gray-haired people there.

It seems that drivers want safer streets, but don’t want to have to change (e.g., slow down) themselves.

Linea does seem to be a calming, rational influence. She’s doing good things.

bubzki2
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 628
Joined: September 19th, 2012, 5:38 pm
Location: Merriam Park

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby bubzki2 » February 22nd, 2018, 10:55 am

SurlyLHT wrote:
February 22nd, 2018, 9:42 am
bubzki2 wrote:
February 22nd, 2018, 9:17 am
Speedbumps are NEVER the answer. Lazy engineering at its worst.
Elaborate? They seem to slow down drivers. Perhaps use mid-block bump outs instead?
Studies have shown (don't have them handy) that speed bumps anger drivers, slow down emergency vehicles and snow plows, can be dangerous for kids in school buses if speeds are incorrectly marked, and cause excessive vehicle noise and dangerous acceleration. They also cost money to build and maintain. I know for a fact that the city of Plymouth, MN (not exactly an urban trendsetter), seeing this data, actually passed a moratorium on new and replacement speed bumps/humps some years ago (which they since violated on S. Shore Drive near Medicine Lake but won't discuss).

Narrower streets, bump-outs, pedestrian facilities, etc. actually work. A much gentler and functional alternative.

schwinnletour
Block E
Posts: 14
Joined: July 27th, 2017, 9:36 am

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby schwinnletour » February 22nd, 2018, 2:33 pm

One thing I forgot to mention regarding the 54th and Penn pedestrian safety meeting is that several people in the community seemed interested in the installation of a mid-block pedestrian crossing similar to the one at 50th & France. That could be a good idea to bridge commercial districts with a history of pedestrian injuries/fatalities.

Additionally, I liked that Linea Palmisano is being more proactive (verse reactive) regarding pedestrian and bike safety and has started a Vision Zero program in Minneapolis in September, 2017.

More information regarding that program is here:
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download ... d_3939.pdf

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7526
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mattaudio » February 22nd, 2018, 2:46 pm

Yes! Mid-block pedestrian crossings are a great idea. Even better if it includes a refuge island that can also create sort of a boundary for motorists that they are entering a particularly urban node. But I imagine businesses would freak about parking impacts. Business concern about parking impacts is what neutered the plans for a median at 43rd and Nicollet, where a Corner Table customer was mowed down by a motorist while crossing the street.


Return to “Transportation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests