Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
exiled_antipodean
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby exiled_antipodean » July 3rd, 2014, 10:03 am

David Greene wrote: So then why the part about pedestrians not stepping into the roadway if cars can't stop? Shouldn't the cars be stopping long before that would be a possibility?
I read that section of the law as requiring pedestrians to act safely (as in other places it instructs drivers to act safely). You have the right of way, but you don't have the right to just step out without checking for oncoming traffic, and judging whether that traffic can stop.

As an able bodied person, sure, I step out onto the roadway with cars approaching hoping they'll stop in the adequate distance I've given them. But numerous times in this state I've had to leap back. That gives me a lot of pause about doing the same thing with a child in tow, or if I was less mobile or able to judge stopping distances.

So, the idea that pedestrians have to step into the roadway to be given the right of way is pretty dangerous unless you're agile. There also situations--particularly in winter--but also on other narrow lanes where there's no safe place to stand in the roadway without being in the path of traffic.

The idea that you have to step into the roadway makes the least sense on busy 30-40mph roads, where cars following at [recommended] 2 second intervals are traveling slowly enough to stop safely, but not slowly enough that you should step out immediately after one car has passed and trust the next one will stop for you.

As mulad points out pedestrians who are motionless are harder to see on the side of the road. But most pedestrians who are trying to cross are somewhat active, i.e. looking around at the traffic and indicating an intent to cross by their placement and actions. And that's at an unmarked intersection.

At a marked crossing how could there be any confusion about what pedestrians are doing. It's just obtuse nonsense to suggest that a pedestrian who is standing on the curb at a marked pedestrian crossing (stripes/signs etc) might just be hanging out there for grins and giggles not intending to cross, and you don't need to stop for them because they're not actually in front of the cars.

Finally, from all reports (and IME) in California people obey the crosswalk law better than here. It turns out to have approximately the same wording as ours:
California legislation wrote: 21950. (a) The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to
a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk or
within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, except as otherwise
provided in this chapter.
(b) This section does not relieve a pedestrian from the duty of
using due care for his or her safety. No pedestrian may suddenly
leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path
of a vehicle that is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard.
No pedestrian may unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in a
marked or unmarked crosswalk.
(c) The driver of a vehicle approaching a pedestrian within any
marked or unmarked crosswalk shall exercise all due care and shall
reduce the speed of the vehicle or take any other action relating to
the operation of the vehicle as necessary to safeguard the safety of
the pedestrian.
(d) Subdivision (b) does not relieve a driver of a vehicle from
the duty of exercising due care for the safety of any pedestrian
within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an
intersection.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displ ... 1949-21971
Indeed if you look up the text of crossing laws around the United States, the legislation here is pretty much identical to what you find in other states. The differences in Minnesota driver behavior compared to other states is not some ambiguity of our law. I would venture to say that since the physical environment of our crossings is also pretty similar to other U.S. states, the difference almost certainly lies in education and enforcement here.

For reference sake, here are some international laws which do explicitly call out the requirement to stop for waiting pedestrians
New Zealand rules wrote: A driver approaching a pedestrian crossing must—

(a) give way to pedestrians, and to riders of wheeled recreational devices or mobility devices,—

(i) on the pedestrian crossing; or

(ii) obviously waiting to cross it and who are not behind a school patrol sign; and

(b) if necessary, slow down and stop the driver's vehicle for that purpose.
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulati ... 03663.html
British rules wrote: Zebra crossings. As you approach a zebra crossing

look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross
you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing
allow more time for stopping on wet or icy roads
do not wave or use your horn to invite pedestrians across; this could be dangerous if another vehicle is approaching
be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing.


https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-t ... 191-to-199

web

Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby web » July 6th, 2014, 8:10 pm

try stopping at dusk for a kid darting in front of larger parked cars in a crosswalk across a 6 lane highway going 50 mph.....HARD to stop and hard to see......kid is lucky I braked hard!......I was going under the speed limit. Sometimes Common Sense needs to be used......why is a 5 yr old kid running across a road at 830pm AND not even looking......(where are parents etc)

matt91486
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby matt91486 » July 6th, 2014, 10:57 pm

Not entirely sure if this is the best thread for it, but some media attention given to lackluster bus shelters can only be a good thing:

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 79041.html

David Greene
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby David Greene » July 7th, 2014, 10:29 am

matt91486 wrote:Not entirely sure if this is the best thread for it, but some media attention given to lackluster bus shelters can only be a good thing:

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 79041.html
Michael McDowell has been doing brilliant work organizing Northside transit riders. He's collecting valuable information about what folks there need.

seanrichardryan
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby seanrichardryan » July 16th, 2014, 6:05 am

Aaand, my pet-peeve has been validated.

http://m.startribune.com/news/?id=267270881&c=y
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

mullen
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mullen » July 16th, 2014, 6:50 am

the bike lane markings fade every year to. the green markings especially seem to fade quickly. something more permanent needs to used.

Snelbian
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Snelbian » August 6th, 2014, 5:19 pm

I'm not sure what's more infuriating. Is it the number of times I'm almost hit by people turning right without looking or blowing through a crosswalk, or the idea of someone telling me that one way to fix the problem is for me to wave a frelling flag around like a kindergarten crossing guard - http://www.twincities.com/crime/ci_2624 ... -and-cross

Welcome to St. Paul, where we apparently can't walk anywhere like a normal person in ANY OTHER CITY ON THE PLANET.

EDIT: Possible bright side to all this. Learn semaphore and signal every car that blows through Snelling and Lincoln "Go F*#& Yourself!"

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Anondson
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Anondson » August 6th, 2014, 5:39 pm

Ah yes, the orange flag of pedestrian surrender.

PhilmerPhil
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Pedestrian Improvements

Postby PhilmerPhil » February 27th, 2015, 10:03 am

Minneapolis Pedestrian Advisory Committee's Recommended Capital Improvement Projects: https://www.facebook.com/download/14380 ... -final.pdf

trigonalmayhem

Re: Pedestrian Improvements

Postby trigonalmayhem » March 2nd, 2015, 12:30 pm

Oh please, for the love of god let someone fix the Hennepin/Central/1st/4th/5th/6th mess. Don't make us wait for some far-off maybe never going to happen street car to fix the pedestrian realm around here (especially 1st ave). Fix it now with the street car in mind, but don't let that hold it up.

trigonalmayhem

Re: Pedestrian Improvements

Postby trigonalmayhem » March 2nd, 2015, 12:32 pm

Also from the section on Nicollet Mall:
As the design progresses, key issues include: maintaining a ten foot minimum clear pedestrian path
separate from outdoor dining areas,
YES! PLEASE! I get so irritated by the constriction of walking space on Nicollet as it is now. They should also make sure to enforce this path being clear so they don't start sneaking A-Frame signs of pedicabs into the space.

grant1simons2
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Re: Pedestrian Improvements

Postby grant1simons2 » March 5th, 2015, 11:15 am

Damn. This would be good to see.

"Possible overhaul for 5th St SE bike/ped bridge over 35W, it would be widened and illuminated under a plan being pushed by a University-area neighborhood."

http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/295195871.html

mulad
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Re: Pedestrian Improvements

Postby mulad » March 5th, 2015, 11:27 am

Does anyone know if there's a design available for the new bridge yet? I took that bridge regularly toward the tail end of my college years. One of my biggest frustrations with it was that bikes had to go up on the sidewalk to access it -- a short cycletrack-like segment leading to each end would be nice (or maybe convert the whole bike lane on 5th to a cycletrack).

talindsay
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Re: Pedestrian Improvements

Postby talindsay » March 20th, 2015, 4:07 pm

So maybe this should be a separate topic, but what's up with St. Paul having "parkways" with no pedestrian or bicycle infrastructure? I ran the length of Wheelock Parkway yesterday, and while there are a few stretches with decent pedestrian infrastructure, most of it doesn't even have so much as a *sidewalk*. I understand that much of that area is low density and low income, but neither of those is a good reason to be missing any pedestrian infrastructure whatsoever. There even appears to be ample space. I joke about it being our largest suburb, but yesterday I really got the feeling that's what it is.

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Anondson
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby Anondson » March 31st, 2015, 11:56 am

As good a thread to post this. The idea of calming streets is spreading around the political spectrum.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... toplights/

"Put A Stop To Stoplights"

mattaudio
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby mattaudio » March 31st, 2015, 12:25 pm

Anondson wrote: "Put A Stop To Stoplights"
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... +shirt.jpg

twincitizen
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby twincitizen » May 5th, 2015, 6:12 am


David Greene
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby David Greene » May 5th, 2015, 10:30 am

F-ing Mn/DOT. It's still legal to cross at an unmarked crosswalk, but I guess ADA rules don't apply there.

This reminds me how much I want curb cuts down the entire Midtown Greenway promenade. If nothing else they will prevent parked cars from blocking the view of the street for people trying to cross.

twincitizen
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby twincitizen » May 5th, 2015, 10:56 am

^This. The lack of curb cuts (and subsequently getting boxed in by parked cars) is effing ridiculous. It would be fairly easy to post "No Parking" signs to simply extend the no parking zone that already exists on the bridges themselves (though mostly unsigned I believe). The curb cuts are probably a lost cause at this point, given private property, etc. The reconstruction of 29th will hopefully be enough of a magnet to draw away most peds going several blocks.

David Greene
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Re: Pedestrian Safety and Infrastructure Improvements

Postby David Greene » May 5th, 2015, 1:55 pm

twincitizen wrote:^The reconstruction of 29th will hopefully be enough of a magnet to draw away most peds going several blocks.
Not until Cub gets redeveloped.


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