Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

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MNdible
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby MNdible » February 14th, 2017, 2:20 pm

Yep, turns out that Minneapolis hasn't yet figured out how to warp the time-space continuum. Things still take up space.

grant1simons2
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby grant1simons2 » February 14th, 2017, 2:47 pm

Okay. There was really no need for that kind of snide remark when I just thought my city was better than building tear downs for street widening in 2017.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mister.shoes » February 14th, 2017, 2:59 pm

Looks to me like they're tearing it down more for the addition of the exit ramp from SB 35W.
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby EOst » February 14th, 2017, 3:01 pm

Hopefully the Good Grocer people were already aware of that when they renovated their building.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby twincitizen » February 14th, 2017, 3:42 pm

I (and therefore Hennepin County and the City) have known since at least 2012 that the Good Grocer building was slated to be demolished. This isn't new information. It was basically the only significant taking of this entire project. There might be a couple houses or partial property acquisitions a little further up, but I'm fairly sure this is the sole commercial property affected by the project. As to whether the Good Grocer folks knew, I'd sure hope so, otherwise they did zero due diligence (or the property owner lied or failed to share that information with them).
SkyScraperKid wrote: why are they narrowing the Nicollet crosswalk into Kmart's parking lot? Won't that bite them in the behind if and when they are able to reconnect the roadway? Seems silly to me.
Nah. Any major redevelopment of the Kmart site would reconstruct the entire Lake & Nicollet intersection anyways. Whatever replaces Kmart is going to be a massive redevelopment - total project costs could easily be >$100MM - rebuilding a block or two of sidewalk and curb is pocket change. I'll also note that they aren't including any on-street parking on the Kmart blocks, and that's something we'd likely want with redevelopment (though the on-street parking would be limited to the Supervalu parcel, with the Lake aBRT station on the 1st-to-Nicollet block)

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby MNdible » February 14th, 2017, 3:45 pm

grant1simons2 wrote:
February 14th, 2017, 2:47 pm
Okay. There was really no need for that kind of snide remark when I just thought my city was better than building tear downs for street widening in 2017.
Sorry. I'm just saying there are a lot of legitimate uses jockeying for very limited space here. Something's gotta give.

Trading important regional priorities for a tired commercial building (regardless of how precious the business renting there is) is a really good swap. No hand wringing necessary.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby twincitizen » March 14th, 2017, 11:31 am

No real news in the latest project update http://metroorangeline.cmail20.com/t/Vi ... 32AAFB68BF

The FTA issued a "Letter of No Prejudice", meaning the highway project and Lake St Station can begin construction. The 50% federal match for the specific Orange Line project (basically stations and buses, not the highway project) still has not been finalized. I think they're still waiting on $25MM from last year's failed bonding bill too.

Starting in August, preliminary highway work should be underway, with the massive disruptions to begin after the Superbowl in Feb. 2018

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby MattW » May 8th, 2017, 11:23 am

twincitizen wrote:
February 14th, 2017, 3:42 pm
I (and therefore Hennepin County and the City) have known since at least 2012 that the Good Grocer building was slated to be demolished. This isn't new information. It was basically the only significant taking of this entire project. There might be a couple houses or partial property acquisitions a little further up, but I'm fairly sure this is the sole commercial property affected by the project. As to whether the Good Grocer folks knew, I'd sure hope so, otherwise they did zero due diligence (or the property owner lied or failed to share that information with them).
SkyScraperKid wrote: why are they narrowing the Nicollet crosswalk into Kmart's parking lot? Won't that bite them in the behind if and when they are able to reconnect the roadway? Seems silly to me.
Nah. Any major redevelopment of the Kmart site would reconstruct the entire Lake & Nicollet intersection anyways. Whatever replaces Kmart is going to be a massive redevelopment - total project costs could easily be >$100MM - rebuilding a block or two of sidewalk and curb is pocket change. I'll also note that they aren't including any on-street parking on the Kmart blocks, and that's something we'd likely want with redevelopment (though the on-street parking would be limited to the Supervalu parcel, with the Lake aBRT station on the 1st-to-Nicollet block)
Update about Good Grocer from their Facebook page:

Dear Good Grocer Supporter,
We have some important news to share regarding the location of our store. Due to the Hennepin County 35W Transit/Access Project our current location is being acquired by the County and will be demolished. We will be forced to close our store at this location in approximately 9-10 months.
We are looking diligently for a new store location within close proximity to our current location that will allow us to serve our customers. Good Grocer is entitled to relocation benefits and other compensation to make this move, and we hope these funds will cover the cost to relocate to a new site. We will try to keep disruption of store operations to a minimum, and we remain hopeful that the County will abide by its commitment to us to provide Good Grocer sufficient funds to pay for the cost to move and re-establish the store.
We are doing all we can to ensure that this current challenge is only a small detour that won’t hinder all of the important work of helping families facing food insecurity. I continue to be thankful for the many ways that our thousands of shoppers, volunteers, and donors have supported our mission. Each of your contributions has been a gift to those we serve.
Sincerely,
Kurt Vickman
Founder

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby SamtheBusNerd » July 21st, 2017, 10:07 am

Has anyone else looked at the construction staging for this (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projec ... nneapolis/)? According to this they're planning on closing Franklin and Portland for 8mos, then closing the 24th St ped bridge for almost 3 years(!), including while 26th is also closed. Is there any sort of work being put into making sure this doesn't make the neighborhoods alongside the freeway completely unlivable? I know when they closed the Lyndale/Hennepin ramps earlier this summer, there was absolutely no effort made to make sure that bikes and peds could still get around and it was pretty bad.

I'm starting to wonder if someone at MnDOT has it out for the people of Phillips...

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » July 21st, 2017, 10:14 am

They are also permanently removing local sidewalks as part of this project. This project is a huge loss for non-motorized travel and neighborhood connectivity.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby SamtheBusNerd » July 21st, 2017, 10:19 am

Wait, what? Tried calling our councilman about it. The response was something along the lines of "no one's complained about it yet so we haven't looked into it".

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby kirby96 » July 21st, 2017, 11:05 am

mattaudio wrote:
July 21st, 2017, 10:14 am
They are also permanently removing local sidewalks as part of this project. This project is a huge loss for non-motorized travel and neighborhood connectivity.
Seriously? Where is that happening? I admit the scope of this project is so overwhelming that I haven't paid much attention to details...

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » July 21st, 2017, 11:16 am

Completely eliminating 2nd Ave S including sidewalk between 28th St and Lake St. Of course, this also includes the desire-path up the 28th St bridge abutment, which was a shortcut to avoid the severe jog in the actual sidewalk (meaning this area has already been walk-hostile, but it's getting worse). https://goo.gl/maps/mvUd8pVkzb32

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Sacrelicio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Sacrelicio » July 21st, 2017, 1:25 pm

I thought we weren't expanding urban freeways any more? Any way to stop it or improve it?

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Sacrelicio » July 21st, 2017, 1:26 pm

SamtheBusNerd wrote:
July 21st, 2017, 10:07 am
I'm starting to wonder if someone at MnDOT has it out for the people of Phillips...
They're mostly poor, so...yeah, they kinda do.

BoredAgain
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby BoredAgain » July 24th, 2017, 10:32 am

mattaudio wrote:
July 21st, 2017, 11:16 am
Completely eliminating 2nd Ave S including sidewalk between 28th St and Lake St. Of course, this also includes the desire-path up the 28th St bridge abutment, which was a shortcut to avoid the severe jog in the actual sidewalk (meaning this area has already been walk-hostile, but it's getting worse). https://goo.gl/maps/mvUd8pVkzb32
You're right that 2nd Ave/Clinton Ave is going away, but I've been looking at it and trying to figure out who is walking there anyway. The only people that wouldn't have an equal (or shorter) path would be the people in the three square blocks between Lake, the greenway, 2nd, and 4th. I suppose there could be school traffic from Whittier to Christo Rey Jusuit HS, but I con't imagine there is a lot of walking traffic through here in the first place.

On the other hand, removing that car connection and replacing with a highway exit ramp will probably make living in that corner much more pleasant (less local traffic).

As far as I can tell, all other pedestrian infrastructure in the project area is maintained or improved. I guess they thought this is an acceptable sacrifice. Adding a pedestrian bridge over the greenway and putting a sidewalk between the new offramp and the existing parking lot would be the obvious solution if we really need one.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby jtoemke » July 24th, 2017, 12:44 pm

BoredAgain wrote:
July 24th, 2017, 10:32 am
mattaudio wrote:
July 21st, 2017, 11:16 am
Completely eliminating 2nd Ave S including sidewalk between 28th St and Lake St. Of course, this also includes the desire-path up the 28th St bridge abutment, which was a shortcut to avoid the severe jog in the actual sidewalk (meaning this area has already been walk-hostile, but it's getting worse). https://goo.gl/maps/mvUd8pVkzb32
You're right that 2nd Ave/Clinton Ave is going away, but I've been looking at it and trying to figure out who is walking there anyway. The only people that wouldn't have an equal (or shorter) path would be the people in the three square blocks between Lake, the greenway, 2nd, and 4th. I suppose there could be school traffic from Whittier to Christo Rey Jusuit HS, but I con't imagine there is a lot of walking traffic through here in the first place.

On the other hand, removing that car connection and replacing with a highway exit ramp will probably make living in that corner much more pleasant (less local traffic).

As far as I can tell, all other pedestrian infrastructure in the project area is maintained or improved. I guess they thought this is an acceptable sacrifice. Adding a pedestrian bridge over the greenway and putting a sidewalk between the new offramp and the existing parking lot would be the obvious solution if we really need one.
I appreciate your level headed look at it. It's good to take a step back sometimes.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Silophant » July 24th, 2017, 1:29 pm

Well, that's a pretty worn-down desire path, so clearly people are using it. A ped/bike bridge to replace the road is a no-brainer, and it's maddening that it wasn't included in the project.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby BoredAgain » July 24th, 2017, 2:38 pm

Silophant wrote:
July 24th, 2017, 1:29 pm
Well, that's a pretty worn-down desire path, so clearly people are using it. A ped/bike bridge to replace the road is a no-brainer, and it's maddening that it wasn't included in the project.
This does sever a bridge across the greenway. I still think that the actual traffic is quite low. Desire paths can have long lives with low traffic. I think a replacement pedestrian bridge would be quite expensive and likely require easement onto private land. If there were extra room in here, then they would have done the 35W on-ramp as originally desired. I think a more cost effective and useful replacement would be greenway access on the southeast and northwest corners of the 35W/greenway crossing. I'm not sure it would be worth the money even then, but it would replace the path indicated with a quieter option with the advantage of improving greenway access.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » July 24th, 2017, 3:01 pm

I use this sidewalk quite frequently as do many others at my workplace. It's also the direct walking connection between this BRT station and the city's third largest job concentration.


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