Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

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Bakken2016
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Bakken2016 » February 27th, 2018, 9:21 am

So I found out why there isn't going to be a station at 38th St.
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tmart
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby tmart » February 27th, 2018, 10:03 am

"the intent was to have no stations in Minneapolis outside of downtown"

I'm shocked, shocked.

Interesting that it was local opposition that removed the 38th St stop. Were they worried about...uh...people from Lakeville coming in and trashing their neighborhoods?

SurlyLHT
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby SurlyLHT » February 27th, 2018, 10:07 am

I give him credit for responding to your request. Although in terms of making Lake St. friendly and safe I dislike the Lake Street station I wish the project the best and hope it is a success.

twincitizen
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby twincitizen » February 27th, 2018, 10:52 am

tmart wrote:
February 27th, 2018, 10:03 am
"the intent was to have no stations in Minneapolis outside of downtown"

I'm shocked, shocked.

Interesting that it was local opposition that removed the 38th St stop. Were they worried about...uh...people from Lakeville coming in and trashing their neighborhoods?
Opposition was to the freeway exit relocation to 38th, which would be detrimental to nearby areas that would see traffic counts increase dramatically compared to current low counts on 38th. Opposition was not specific to the station.

A better plan would rebuild the freeway exit at 36th (ideally as a dogbone interchange), with a station at 38th, where the walkshed wouldn’t be horribly disrupted by the additional vehicle traffic. That way, car traffic stays on 36th where it is today, and 38th & Nicollet doesn’t get ruined due to its proximity to the freeway. A plan like that checks a lot of boxes, and would’ve made the most people happy, I’d imagine.

Clarification: is the entire 38th St bridge structure coming down and rebuilt from scratch or is this a redecking? If the latter, everything is fine. If the former, that’s a real bummer that we’re not building the new bridge “station ready”.

talindsay
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby talindsay » February 27th, 2018, 11:47 am

SurlyLHT wrote:
February 27th, 2018, 10:07 am
I give him credit for responding to your request. Although in terms of making Lake St. friendly and safe I dislike the Lake Street station I wish the project the best and hope it is a success.
Christina is presumed to be a "her". Not everybody in planning jobs is male.

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jw138
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby jw138 » February 27th, 2018, 12:50 pm

Interesting that it was local opposition that removed the 38th St stop. Were they worried about...uh...people from Lakeville coming in and trashing their neighborhoods?
Not true at all. As twincitizen states, the opposition was to the freeway exit relocation. Everything I've heard about a 38th St stop has been along the lines of "they're crazy for not adding one." Neighborhood support was strong.
Clarification: is the entire 38th St bridge structure coming down and rebuilt from scratch or is this a redecking? If the latter, everything is fine. If the former, that’s a real bummer that we’re not building the new bridge “station ready”.
Redecking.

mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » February 27th, 2018, 12:52 pm

https://www.dot.state.mn.us/35w94/pdf/e ... ndix-D.pdf
Dismissed Changes to I-35W at 35th/36th Street Interchange

The I-35W and 35th/36th Street interchange is currently a split diamond interchange with signal control at
all four ramp terminal intersections. 35th Street is a one-way westbound roadway and 36th Street is a oneway
eastbound roadway. Both 35th Street and 36th Street are 30 mph, Major Collector roadways.

The existing short weave sections on I-35W between 35th Street and 31st Street is a major concern to all
governmental entities involved because it contributes to congestion in the corridor. However, due to fiscal
constraints and potential impacts, fully addressing the weaving section (e.g., relocation of the existing
35th/36th Street interchange or ramp braiding) as part of this project was implausible. Previous
engagements in the project area related to improving the weaving section resulted in considerable
resistance from local neighborhoods potentially impacted by the change.

As part of this project, the northbound weaving section was reduced, from 580 to 530 feet, and a full
auxiliary lane is provided to the proposed 28th Street exit ramp; the current weaving area does not include
an escape lane. The southbound weaving area was extended by approximately 120 feet and the existing
auxiliary escape lane was extended from 200 to 400 feet.

Both short weaving sections have reduced weaving demands with the Preferred Alternative. The
southbound weaving demands are reduced as traffic has the proposed Lake Street exit ramp to exit
upstream of this weaving section; forecasts showed a 25 percent daily reduction in demands at the 35th
Street exit ramp. The northbound exit to 28th Street relieves the existing queuing problems from the
arterial streets and dissipates the exiting demands to two locations over a much greater distance;
relieving the weaving demands at the short weaving section.

The current design of this project does not preclude a future project to address the short weaving issues
either by relocation of the existing 35th/36th Street interchange or ramp braiding.

tmart
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby tmart » February 27th, 2018, 1:29 pm

jw138 wrote:
February 27th, 2018, 12:50 pm
Interesting that it was local opposition that removed the 38th St stop. Were they worried about...uh...people from Lakeville coming in and trashing their neighborhoods?
Not true at all. As twincitizen states, the opposition was to the freeway exit relocation. Everything I've heard about a 38th St stop has been along the lines of "they're crazy for not adding one." Neighborhood support was strong.
Yeah, that makes more sense. I hadn't drawn the connection that a station would only happen if the exits were relocated.

Tcmetro
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Tcmetro » April 27th, 2018, 12:26 pm

The extension update from Dakota County has two interesting points.

1. Study will be delayed as the City of Burnsville launches planning work in the mall area.

2. Uncomfort with Kenrick Ave ridership estimates (and availability of peak-hour express service) push this station out of short-term consideration.

https://www.co.dakota.mn.us/Government/ ... Update.pdf

DanPatchToget
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » April 28th, 2018, 8:10 pm

I thought one of the benefits of BRT was supplementing the existing express service with all-day, frequent, station-to-station service. Of course Route 467 is faster than the Orange Line could ever be, but what if someone from Lakeville goes back midday or evening when its not economical to run the express service?

Oreos&Milk
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Oreos&Milk » April 29th, 2018, 8:48 am

DanPatchToget wrote:
April 28th, 2018, 8:10 pm
I thought one of the benefits of BRT was supplementing the existing express service with all-day, frequent, station-to-station service. Of course Route 467 is faster than the Orange Line could ever be, but what if someone from Lakeville goes back midday or evening when its not economical to run the express service?
If you plan ahead you could park at an actual orange line station instead of you know ahead of time, if not then just order an Uber. All day hourly service to a parking ramp lined by a freeway on one side, two bike dealerships, and an undeveloped grass lot is not really urban enough to collect enough fare money to make it economically viable, well just a hunch.

End of the line should be at Burnsville Center, no need to build additional parking work a deal with the mall and give them naming rights and an attractive station that encourages shopping like MOA station does and your almost already done.

Long term an inline station with fancy exit ramps directly to a new parking ramp would be pretty cool way to attract more people to a park and ride. Not sure it's worth the investment but going south of Burnsville Center would be a dummer idea than the red line. If lakeville wants to provide a bus shuttle service that would be a good investment some day. They won't because if you don't own a BMW or have the ability to buy a luxury car, odds are you don't live in Lakeville... but if you do, keep quiet, because odds are many many of your fellow neighbors would love to help you pack and get you the hell out of town.

Tcmetro
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Tcmetro » April 29th, 2018, 8:58 am

The idea would involve little to no new construction. The Orange Line Extension planning process has been assuming utilizing the existing station at 167th/Kenrick. The issue with the extension is that it will require an additional 5 buses (Phase 1 will use 10 buses), which is a significant operational cost to serve a few new stations. Additionally, most of the demand is at peak when direct express service is available on the 467. In short, an Orange Line extension to 167th/Kenrick would amount to expensive, empty buses running around.

I'm interested to see how the planning process for the Burnsville Center redevelopment go. Currently, the area is 100% car-orientated shopping. I would imagine that the area closest to Burnhaven would be ideal for redevelopment into housing. This would be an ideal area for the transit hub to go, but there would need to be emphasis made on transit priority once the Orange Line exits 35W. The entire area has pretty bad traffic for most of the day and could be the cause of reliability issues if not handled properly.

DanPatchToget
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » June 5th, 2018, 11:11 pm

Bloomington is doing a survey on South Bloomington Transit Center improvements in terms of parking, wayfinding, pedestrian improvements, etc. Link-https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/98thSAP

SamtheBusNerd
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby SamtheBusNerd » June 9th, 2018, 7:36 pm

Hope this is the right spot since this is technically related to this project...

Anyone else gotten a chance to check out the 35W express bus detour route that starts Monday? They finally put up the bus lane signs on Park and Portland and it's bad. Half of the signs are behind trees, they're not at intersections, there are no overhead signs or pavement markings, and there's nothing in the block of Portland between 26th and 27th (where there will presumably be a ton of traffic turning left onto Portland since the 26th St bridge is gone). It's basically a copy of the Hennepin (non-) bus lanes downtown. They're also on the left side of the road even though the bus has to turn right onto 31st and there's nothing to get the buses through the bottleneck on 31st and onto 35W.

It's bad enough that all of this suburban service is being detoured directly through a low-income, minority neighborhood without stopping but this is even worse. Bus lanes aren't a new concept. Why didn't the county just say no to the lanes if they weren't going to bother actually making them enforceable?

DanPatchToget
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby DanPatchToget » June 9th, 2018, 8:25 pm

Wonder if it would be better if some of the express routes were detoured onto Hiawatha Avenue instead? Isn't there a shoulder they can use in case traffic is really bad?

mamundsen
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mamundsen » June 10th, 2018, 7:38 am

I have a feeling there will be lots of calls/texts this week saying “Sorry I’m going to be late, my bus is stuck in traffic.”

tmart
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby tmart » June 10th, 2018, 1:46 pm

DanPatchToget wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 8:25 pm
Wonder if it would be better if some of the express routes were detoured onto Hiawatha Avenue instead? Isn't there a shoulder they can use in case traffic is really bad?
If we're going as far as a detour to Hiawatha, maybe it makes more sense to divert passengers to the Blue Line instead?

Tcmetro
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Tcmetro » June 10th, 2018, 3:02 pm

MVTA is starting a #416 which will run express from Eagan Transit Station to 46th St Blue Line. I wonder how many will switch over from the #470 express.

With the transit only entrance and exit at 31st and the bus lanes, I really don't see traffic being an issue. I would imagine a lot of drivers are going to switch to 100 and 394 however.


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