Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

[Wedgeguy]

As has been pointed out before, The 28th street exit is not really designed to be an exit for everyone. It'd main propose is for emergency vehicles to have a better shot to get to Abbot and the rest of us will just use it if we want. There will only be a north bound exit and nothing more.

[Tcmetro]

Here are a couple of presentations with renderings and site plans for the 66th and 98th Street stations:

http://metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/1/me ... liance.pdf
http://metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/1/me ... 100413.pdf

Planning is also underway for the Burnsville Station expansion.

Also on the Orange Line page, it looks as though they are seeking Small Starts funding for the line.

[NickP]

My first reactions is to ask if they considered doing a far side station for the north bound 66th st. station. I guess near side would allow better interlining to the 515 bus route, but then why wouldn't they put the south bound station on the near side as well? Anyone have any insight?

[lordmoke]

They've got a survey:
https://www.snapsurveys.com/wh/s.asp?k=138360052623

[Viktor Vaughn]

I-35W expansion could jeopardize historic homes
http://www.startribune.com/local/west/232682751.html

[twincitizen]

The current fencing/landscaping/mitigation in that area is, how do you say, completely lacking. There is already an exit from from NB 35W to 31st Street, very near these homes. I don't think anyone is under the impression that the Healy Block (2nd Ave, 31st to 32nd) is in literal jeopardy...it's historically protected. Yes, the highway will be widened to accomodate the center transit station, but I don't think the actual highway exit to 31st St on that side is moving. It's not like they're narrowing 2nd Avenue or anything, because that isn't really possible. There may be more visible aerial structure visible to the homes, but that's about it. Vibration and noise mitigation is absolutely a concern, but let's not get all crazy and try to block the project. How about asking MNDOT to commit actual, ongoing, permanent funding to the landscaping and screening maintenance in this area? I think that would go a long way to actually improving the area from its present condition, rather than making it worse.

[cowboyjones]

Yeah, there's 60 or so feet of space on either side of the freeway, and they would get rid of the current freeway bus bumpouts. I don't think it would take up that much space. Also, let's be glad that at least none of the stops require winding through the neighborhood to get to.

[David Greene]

Or how about taking a general traffic lane and dedicating it to buses? Or even make it a HOT lane.

Why the hell do we need a freeway expansion here?

And yes, I asked the same about the Crosstown Commons rebuild.

[Tcmetro]

There isn't any lane expansion. A new deck has to be built for the profile of the transit station.

And it's a terrible idea to take a lane away at a major bottleneck. You're just moving bottlenecks around at that point.

[David Greene]

There isn't any lane expansion. A new deck has to be built for the profile of the transit station.

And it's a terrible idea to take a lane away at a major bottleneck. You're just moving bottlenecks around at that point.

That's not how I understood things.

"Jim Grube, engineer for Hennepin County, which is the lead agency on TAP, said a new southbound lane would have to be added to the freeway to allow bus access to the new station from the inside lanes of the freeway in both directions."

Basically they want a new lane so buses can remain in the center. So rather than taking, say, the existing dynamic shoulder and converting it to a full-on bus/HOT lane, they want to add a lane. That's insane.

Even if somehow they don't need a new lane and only need room for the station as you speculate, you could still use the dynamic shoulder for much of it. There's even an existing bus bumpout on the bridge. There should be plenty of room there.

Is it really so terrible to take an existing lane that's only open a few hours a day? Sure, it's at peak travel time but at some point the city has to say "no" to more and more people driving single-occupant vehicles. We cannot keep expanding freeways in the urban core.

[mister.shoes]

Southbound doesn't have a dynamic shoulder. That's northbound-only.

I don't disagree with your premise, but thought that should be clarified.

[woofner]

It looks to me like they're adding a northbound lane:

http://www.35lake.com/graphics/051712_s ... atform.pdf

But of course all their graphics are vague at this point. Hey, those homeowners are lucky this project has a transit component or there wouldn't be any public process at all.

[mattaudio]

That's an aux lane from about 31st to 29th for the northbound exit to 28th St per the other maps. Although that exit to 28th is a ridiculous idea.

[twincitizen]

Yeah, I agree the exit to 28th is flipping ridiculous. I thought at one point they had agreed that it was too expensive, but they would make sure the project didn't eliminate the possibility of doing it in the future. It seems they are pressing forward with the unneeded exit. If they build that exit before 28th is converted to a two-way street, I'm pretty sure it will never happen.

[orangevening]

Especially if they are considering a cycle track on 28th. At least it will be (semi?) protected from 60 mph traffic transitioning to 30 mph traffic

[David Greene]

Southbound doesn't have a dynamic shoulder. That's northbound-only.

True, I had forgot about that. However, it's just a matter of moving the median...

[woofner]

Especially if they are considering a cycle track on 28th. At least it will be (semi?) protected from 60 mph traffic transitioning to 30 mph traffic

The other problem is that they're designing the intersection where the exit dumps out on 28th at a skew that will make it awkward if 28th were upgraded to a two-way (as most neighbors would prefer). I mean, I would support having this exit be right-only even if 28th were two-way, but I worry could potentially be used as wedge to scrap any two-way upgrade.

Also, speaking of proposed buffered bike lane on 28th, I wonder where the western terminus would be. The project is described as being from 35W to Hiawatha, but it would obviously be weird if the lane started in the middle of the bridge. It would be cool if it could start at Blaisdell even if the (overly wide) segments of 26th & 28th between there and the freeway aren't being resurfaced.

[Mdcastle]

Taking freeway lanes from single car drivers may be politically correct but I don't think it's politically feasible, even here. That was tried early on in other places, like on the Santa Monica freeway but the public outcry forced them to back down. Having said that there's room to add a dynamic shoulder southbound like was done northbound without really widening the pavement, but if the road is substantially rebuilt, FHWA takes a dim view of not proving full width full-time shoulders on interstates. Looking at the diagram they're still going to skimp on the inner shoulder in tight places. Not having shoulders isn't safe, but neither is congestion, so FHWA is willing to bend on situations like I-35W northbound, where there would be a problem due to the HOV lane suddenly ending at 46th street otherwise.

Its also interesting that the project eliminates a left entrance, onto I-94 eastbound, but technically creates a left entrance onto I-94 westbound and I-35W soutbound. I thought the original justification for the flyover ramp was making it faster for ambulances to get to Abbott, so having a skewed intersection with a right turn only wouldn't be problem if that were the case.

[twincitizen]

26th/28th Street two-way conversion & protected cycletrack talk has been moved to a separate topic.

Back to the Orange Line: SURVEY TIME!!!

[twincitizen]

Drove over the American Boulevard bridge over 35W for lunch today (Hunan buffet; I need to lie down). Boy that sucker has a steep grade up to the center. Not the most friendly to pedestrians (esp. under icy conditions) and possibly inaccessible to non-motorized wheelchair users. You all already know I'm a strong supporter of the Knox Avenue option, but I'm not certain that American Boulevard was ever a realistic option. That is a long, steep walk past a bunch of nothing to get to the station in the middle of the highway. I understand that a straight line looks better to you on a map, but it just doesn't work in the real world. In 20-30 years when we convert this line to LRT or at least electrify the buses, I would obviously support a center station at that time (assuming bridge replacement and development lining American Blvd)

Why is this bridge so steep anyways? It seems like they are offering pretty generous clearance down below. Couldn't 35W have been lowered a little more?