Orange Line / 35W@94: Downtown to Crosstown Project

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woofner
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby woofner » October 25th, 2012, 11:56 am

It's an FTP site, check your browser settings.
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mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby mattaudio » October 25th, 2012, 12:01 pm

Yikes. Interesting plans, but I'm tired of plans that are developed in a silo or with severe scope constraints. I understand why that's done, but I wish there were ALSO plans at a higher level... a vision... what do we want to see with the area? What would build the community around these facilities? Etc. The plans I see are just a beefed up version of the existing freeway network. Which doesn't even make sense in many cases, for example the connection to Hiawatha Ave which obviously never became a freeway.

mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby mattaudio » October 25th, 2012, 12:16 pm

Anyone know how to make maps like in that Appendix C/D file?

billhelm
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby billhelm » October 25th, 2012, 12:42 pm

I'm guessing (and backing it up with lots of personal experience) that this conflict between cars entering WB 94 and cars trying to exit at Hennepin/Lyndale is a HUGE bottleneck that could be remediated by this change. I have to believe that cars entering WB 94 from the future left-hand entrance would be prohibited from crossing over 4 lanes to exit at Hennepin-Lyndale...but I have nothing to back that up.
If people actually honored the double white line, it would alleviate the backup somewhat. On an almost daily basis I have somebody full stop in front of me as soon as we're off the ramp to try and merge with 20 or 30 feet of clear lane in front of them.

Same goes for the EB 94-SB 35W ramp, people try to merge immediately instead of using the lane that's there and merging further down.

Here's to a better designed intersection being built...

fehler
Rice Park
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby fehler » October 25th, 2012, 1:12 pm

Wow, seeing the old 35W bridge referred to as an "existing structure" is a bit off-putting.

Tcmetro
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby Tcmetro » October 25th, 2012, 1:34 pm

The report was written a month before the bridge collapse.

mulad
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby mulad » October 25th, 2012, 3:08 pm

Yikes. Interesting plans, but I'm tired of plans that are developed in a silo or with severe scope constraints. I understand why that's done, but I wish there were ALSO plans at a higher level... a vision...
Surely you jest! "Vision" is mentioned dozens of times!

mulad
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby mulad » October 25th, 2012, 3:10 pm

If people actually honored the double white line, it would alleviate the backup somewhat. On an almost daily basis I have somebody full stop in front of me as soon as we're off the ramp to try and merge with 20 or 30 feet of clear lane in front of them.
They could in the very least add a rumble strip there, but perhaps that's not kosher since it wouldn't technically be for safety like rumble strips usually are?

(We need an "I-35W/I-94 Commons" thread or something, right?)

UptownSport
Target Field
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby UptownSport » October 25th, 2012, 11:06 pm

We need an "I-35W/I-94 Commons" thread
https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=939

twincitizen
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby twincitizen » October 26th, 2012, 12:31 pm

Construction start date on the Lake St Station & SB exit project... 2015 IF funding sources line up. BARF

Tcmetro
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby Tcmetro » October 26th, 2012, 1:19 pm

So basically the BRT service that was supposed to start in 2010 and was pushed back to 2016, could now be opening in 2018 or later?

beykite
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby beykite » October 26th, 2012, 2:43 pm

So basically the BRT service that was supposed to start in 2010 and was pushed back to 2016, could now be opening in 2018 or later?
I don't know, that seems to be moving awfully fast for us... Maybe we should push it back to 2020 to coincide with the start of construction on the SW Light Rail Line. :roll:

twincitizen
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby twincitizen » October 27th, 2012, 6:35 pm

Should the proposed relocation of the 35th/36th street exit to 38th Street ever happen, do we think it should include a BRT station? Why or why not?

I say yes, as 2 miles between Lake and 46th is too far. I like the idea of having the Orange line as the backbone, with crosstown bus routes on 66th, 46th, 38th, and Lake.

Not every bus in the corridor would stop at 38th, like the express routes do at Lake, but the actual branded Orange Line service definitely should. I'm thinking a slightly scaled back version of the 46th Street station would be appropriate here.

Tcmetro
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby Tcmetro » October 27th, 2012, 7:58 pm

38th St Stn is an excellent idea, IMO. I'd also like to see Franklin, but that could be unfeasible.

mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby mattaudio » October 27th, 2012, 10:07 pm

The crosstown bus that goes down 38th Street doesn't seem to be that popular compared to the 46 and (obviously) the 21.

MSPtoMKE
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby MSPtoMKE » October 27th, 2012, 11:50 pm

Well, both the 23 and 46 are way less busy than the 21, but I believe the the 23 on 38th has a slightly higher ridership than the 46. It does have a longer span of service, anyway. I think a station at 38th would be nice, but not exactly critical. If they could do it for a reasonable cost when they reconstruct the area, then go for it. The tangle of ramps that will be in the vicinity of Franklin would make a station very hard to fit, and it would only really be useful for trips to and from the south, not downtown.
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fehler
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby fehler » October 28th, 2012, 9:55 pm

Yes, and then build a bridge across the river connecting 38th Street and St. Clair Ave.

twincitizen
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby twincitizen » October 29th, 2012, 9:57 pm

Yes, and then build a bridge across the river connecting 38th Street and St. Clair Ave.

I have often wondered why there was no such bridge. But when you really think about it, the traffic counts would be really low and not justify the cost (and destruction to the natural areas). I think we have the perfect amount of bridges crossing the Mississippi right now (and perhaps too many between (Central/Hennepin/Plymouth/Broadway/Lowry) The Plymouth Bridge was/is probably expendable, once we replace the Broadway one (now that it put on about 10 years of wear & tear in the past 4).

Back to the Orange Line, it just seems wrong to skip 38th Street, considering the existing stop spacing on the Blue Line and the existence of the crosstown bus routes. Also, if we're going to rebuild the 38th Street bridge over 35W anyways, why not include a transit station?

twincitizen
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby twincitizen » November 14th, 2012, 1:45 am

I bring you photos from yesterday's 35-Lake open house at Whittier Community Center:

Image
Looking northbound from Lake Street at 35W, "the green crescent" and Stevens Ave.

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A different angle of the same thing.

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Top-down view of "Green Crescent" and SB 35W exit ramp to Lake St.

Image
A Greenway level look at "Green Crescent", under the exit ramp.
Notice the stairs up to Stevens Ave from the Greenway. A nice touch.
How does the imaginary Greenway streetcar fit into this scenario? Curious.

Image
The station above and Lake Street below, chock full of buses and people!

Also, I just wanted to say that Jim Grube from Hennepin County is a really nice guy. He seemed confident that this is finally happening. Also, the highway engineer guys from SEH were fun to talk to. I had a conversation with an older fellow (like retirement age) about the 35W flyover ramp plans, the bottleneck, double-decking the tunnel (he brought it up first), etc.

Obviously the SB EXIT to Lake Street is happening. The NB ENTRANCE from Lake Street to 35W is not happening at this time, but everything will be designed to facilitate its inclusion in the future. It sure seems like the NB EXIT to 28th St is still happening though. I thought (and hoped) that had fallen away at one point due to funding, but I guess not.

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT)

Postby Wedgeguy » November 14th, 2012, 7:51 am

THis is my opinion now! But you have two political heavy weight that want the 28th street exit, Wells Fargo for their Mortgage building, and Allina hospital for a faster route to Abbott for ambulances. The second one does have public safety and good one the surface so that is why I think it will still be included.


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