Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
billhelm
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby billhelm » January 3rd, 2017, 3:11 pm

Tcmetro wrote:Some preliminary work staging information is up, looks like there will be some pretty significant detours (for both cars and various bus routes) over the next four years.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projec ... nneapolis/
Wow, going to be some staggering, long lasting impacts from this project. I expected as much but the scope and duration is pretty extensive.

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jw138
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby jw138 » January 3rd, 2017, 6:30 pm

This is going to be very very ugly for a very long time with little to no alternatives for getting in to / out of this part of south Minneapolis quickly...

EOst
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby EOst » January 3rd, 2017, 7:35 pm

The detour on the 2 when the Franklin Ave bridge is closed will be a nightmare. The congestion on 15th could set it back a long way at rush.

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mister.shoes
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mister.shoes » January 3rd, 2017, 11:39 pm

$100MM/mile and 4+ years is amazing. Impressive, really.

And it's going to *suck* for those of us who live near Portland Ave, Diamond Lake Road, 46th St, etc.
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twincitizen
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby twincitizen » January 4th, 2017, 8:29 am

So there will be major disruption on 35W through 2021, yet the Orange Line begins service by the end of 2019? That seems a little fishy... I can't imagine Metro Transit would roll out a new major investment before it's at full strength.

The December 2019 - November 2020 staging map shows southbound 35W closed between downtown and 46th Street. Though it does say 3 lanes will be open in each direction... does that mean all traffic will be shifted to the NB side? Or is the southbound closure just the outer lane? (all exit/entrance ramps are closed to the southbound side) The December 2020-2021 staging shows northbound 35W closed, etc, etc...same question.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby RailBaronYarr » January 4th, 2017, 8:54 am

I know there's no funding for it and it's not in the scope and etc etc.. but is there any chance the 38th St bridge deck reconstruction will allow for a possible future online station to be "bolted on"? I predict that Orange Line will be fairly popular, and if 46th St can justify a station 38th absolutely should.

Also, wow, yeah if you drive or take the bus anywhere around this area it's going to suck pretty hard for a while.

mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » January 4th, 2017, 9:17 am

There's no chance to fit 5 lanes in each direction and an interior BRT station within the existing piers. Most bridges have one center pier in the median; the 46th St bridge has two center piers flanking the BRT station.

It's really a shame that we'll go through all this headache and end up with bridges - 38th, 42nd, etc - that don't support stronger connections between the two sides of the freeway.

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jw138
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby jw138 » January 4th, 2017, 10:45 am

RailBaronYarr wrote:I know there's no funding for it and it's not in the scope and etc etc.. but is there any chance the 38th St bridge deck reconstruction will allow for a possible future online station to be "bolted on"? I predict that Orange Line will be fairly popular, and if 46th St can justify a station 38th absolutely should.
I asked this at a community meeting that was held last year. The answer was no. The expected lifetime of the redecking is 20-30 years after which time they'll consider changes to accommodate an inline station.

twincitizen
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby twincitizen » January 4th, 2017, 11:08 am

Yep, it's just a redecking, not full reconstruction. On the bright side, the 38th St bridge will accommodate bike lanes and the bike/ped bridges at 24th and 40th will be massive improvements over the current facilities. That's a lot to celebrate.

Full replacement of the 35th/36th/38th/42nd St bridges is a separate project for the next generation. However, despite the projected 20-30 year life expectancy of the re-decking, I could see replacement coming sooner if funding materialized to replace the 35th/36th Street interchange, as that project would likely include the 38th St bridge. The need for that project won't go away at all... after all this money spent and years of disruption, there will still be annoying jams in the outer lanes because of the ramps at 31st & 35th being too close together. If you had a city councilor(s) and state legislator(s) who advocated for funding, I don't think it would be too surprising to see that happen sooner than 20 years.

Tcmetro
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby Tcmetro » January 4th, 2017, 11:36 am

Quick list of the affected bus routes. The SIP mentions moving the 133 and 135 to local streets, so I would imagine that would happen by the beginning of the project. When the Crosstown Commons and the 94th St bridge were under construction the 535 was rerouted to local streets south of 35th. Perhaps it could be rerouted to keep a stop at Lake St. Other routes could be sent to other highways, especially those that are coming from the SW (namely the 491, 492, 684, 695 and maybe the 578 and 597).

I really don't know how MT is planning to open the Orange Line by 2019, either. With the Lake St stop closed as well as all the delays from this project (and the Minnesota River Bridge project), Orange Line would probably have a pretty tarnished reputation.

Stage 1:
2 – Franklin Ave bridge
9, 39 – Portland Ave bridge
23 – 38th St bridge
Stage 2:
133, 135, 146, 156, 460, 464, 465, 467, 470, 472, 475, 476, 477, 478, 479, 491, 492, 535, 552, 553, 554, 558, 578, 597, 684, 695 – Hwy. 65 closed
11 - 26th St bridge closed
133, 135 – 35th St ramps closed
Stage 3:
11 - 28th St bridge closed
133, 135 – 35th St inbound ramp closed
Stage 4:
133, 135 – 35th St ramps closed
146 – 46th St outbound exit ramp closed
Stage 5:
133, 135 – 35th St inbound ramp closed
146 - 46th St inbound ramp closed

twincitizen
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby twincitizen » January 5th, 2017, 2:11 pm

I guess the discussion of whether Orange Line will open before the project is complete is still somewhat under negotiation between MNDOT and Metro Transit. If they don't begin service, then the newly constructed stations would just be sitting there for 2 years. If they do begin service, the plan is to have the HOT lanes operational so maybe the traffic congestion won't impact the buses that much. Begs the question if the so-called "TH-65" infrastructure (basically all the lanes/ramps that connect to downtown streets) will be completed by the end of 2019...

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby twincitizen » February 14th, 2017, 10:06 am

This is from late November, but I don't think these were shared here. Block-by-block layouts of the Lake Street rebuild between Blaisdell and 5th Avenue S: http://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepin ... .pdf?la=en

These plans are artistic rather than technical, for the purposes of illustrating the streetscaping features such as trees, benches, trash cans, etc. The last two pages of the document are the technical layout that we already saw last summer. Final design on this is supposed to be ready soon.

mattaudio
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby mattaudio » February 14th, 2017, 10:20 am

1. Why no center median between Stevens and 1st?
2. 4th Ave should really have LTLs carved out at Lake Street. Traffic on 4th Ave can back up over a block, past the Greenway in the PM.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby SkyScraperKid » February 14th, 2017, 11:17 am

why are they narrowing the Nicollet crosswalk into Kmart's parking lot? Won't that bite them in the behind if and when they are able to reconnect the roadway? Seems silly to me.

lordmoke
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby lordmoke » February 14th, 2017, 12:45 pm

Are they seriously planning to demolish Good Grocer to WIDEN Lake? For real?

grant1simons2
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby grant1simons2 » February 14th, 2017, 12:51 pm

These plans are artistic rather than technical, for the purposes of illustrating the streetscaping features such as trees, benches, trash cans, etc.


That's a giant case of eminent domain so I doubt it

nBode
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby nBode » February 14th, 2017, 1:00 pm

The preliminary technical drawings also show the Good Grocer building to be demolished.

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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby MNdible » February 14th, 2017, 1:01 pm

lordmoke wrote:
February 14th, 2017, 12:45 pm
Are they seriously planning to demolish Good Grocer to WIDEN Lake? For real?
Looks like a definite yes to me, although it's probably being driven as much by the added width that the in-line BRT station requires in the 35W right of way. A few eggs need to be broken.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby FISHMANPET » February 14th, 2017, 1:12 pm

Yeah Good Grocer is going away. Source: people on the project team told me. Though I think the reasoning is that the space is needed for ramps, rather than specifically to widen lake, though that's just a guess.
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grant1simons2
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Re: Orange Line (35W BRT) & Lake St Transit Access Project

Postby grant1simons2 » February 14th, 2017, 1:41 pm

Well god damn. Thought this city was a little better than Richfield when it comes to road projects.


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